only a handful of investigators at most have been assigned to work on the Nord Stream case on a full-time basis.
the perception among investigators is that the will to solve the case is not particularly pronounced in the capital. Politically, it is easier to live with what happened if it remains unclear who is behind the attacks.
“This is the most important investigation of Germany’s postwar history because of its potential political implications,” says a senior security official.
And yet, nobody in Germany cares. Neither officials nor the people (nor me). The pipe should never have been built, so let’s be thankful to whoever helped us un-building it.
Indeed. And even if Ukraine did it IMO it’s a reasonable target in a war like this. Wouldn’t bother me.
This. So what if Ukraine destroyed the pipeline. Russia invaded their country. Its war. All bets are off when it comes to war. The Ukrainians are allowed to attack Russian assets. Whether they did it themselves or they were helped by the US doesn’t particularly matter. Short of boots on the ground the USA is doing everything it can to support Ukraine in this war. Russia and Russian propagandists can go fuck themselves.
This. So what if Ukraine destroyed the pipeline. Russia invaded their country. Its war.
How about this as a draft of how to react?
But they didn’t attack the Russian side. They have commited an act of war against an ally. Oh, and of course they kept importing and transfering Russian gas none-the-less… through lines they get paid for. Not really surprising given the fact that they had also pushed lies and propaganda about Germany for half a year at that point (We could see German weapons delivered to Ukraine in videos back in March or see Russians document German mines in April while Ukrainian officials still openly lied that not a single piece promised -including from before the war- was ever delivered… in June. We also will not simply forget the lying propagadist pushing desinformation in Germany for 7 years while pretending to be an actual ambassador), but very telling.
Proof that they detonated the pipelines that weren’t even in use, so purely for symbolical reasons, and were also willing to attack the infrastructure of a country supporting them to do so would very well fit the picture and should have the obvious consequences:
Supporting them right now makes sense from humanitarian and geo-political perspectives. Once that acute problem is handled… let’s treat them exactly like the “Russia light” corrupt shit hole that is lying, pushing propaganda and carrying out false-flag operation against an ally even, probably while believing this to be actual foreign politics.
Best thing that could’ve happened to Germany and Europe. For too long have they been suckling on Russia’s tits and became too dependent on cheap Russian gas.
Totally agree. It could have even been a black project by Germany to quickly distance from reliance on Russian! Think of how long the beaurocratic process would have been to do the same 😂
I understand why they did it originally - tie them to you as an ally, so it’s in all parties’ best interests to behave. Gives both sides benefits. But it assumes all parties are rational, and Putin isn’t. I feel sorry for the Russians who don’t know/understand this, since they’ll be paying for this long after Putin offs himself/falls out a window. But fuck Putin.
Yeah… I always suspected it was Ukraine, since what would Russia gain from destroying it?
Weirdly enough, I think it might have benefited Germany by removing the insane option to bow to Russia’s blackmail. Just the debate might destabilize the government / society. With NS gone, there wasn’t any question.
If it was Russia, a possible motive would be so that they frame the US for blowing it up in the hope that Europe would then blame the US for destroying the supply of gas to Europe. One of the biggest goals of Russia’s disinformation campaigns is to hurt relations between the US and Europe by portraying the US as the bad guy.
A one weird thing is that Russia surprisingly didn’t push this issue very hard. I expected a lot of Russia-sponsored propaganda and finger-pointing in the German mediaspace, but there wasn’t that much.
Do you think if we ask nicely they’ll hit the Trans Mountain next?
Ah yeah, all this evidence like:
One of the three or four ships in the world with a moon pool that could supply and enable divers to work at the depth of the pipeline, hanging around the area after a naval maneuver less than five days before the explosion
A US Navy anti-submarine plane (indeed, one of the only planes in the world with the ability to generate a signal that would reach to the depth of the pipeline) flying the length of the pipeline almost exactly 24 hours before the explosion
And the Commander in Chief of the most
expensivepowerful military in the world, explaining that the Nordstream pipelines would be brought offline by any means necessary (not shown in the photo, he is standing literally right next to Olaf Scholz - the Chancellor of Germany - who did not even attempt to contradict his statement).Great, the hexbear loonies escaped the asylum again
Bootlickers: try not to respond with accusations of mental illness challenge: (IMPOSSIBLE) (GONE WRONG) (GONE NATO)
If there was ever any proof needed of a mental deficiency with a hexbear user, you just gave it. Well done!
Do you have a rebuttal to the argument or are you just trolling?
I mean… Man’s got a good point here lol. As far as circumstantial evidence goes, this is pretty damning.
A lot of speculation, uncertainty and hypotheticals. The west will continue to support Ukraine against Russia.
Who do you think blew up the pipeline?
A case could probably be made for either side. Russia supposedly has done this before in Georgia
Sure, but it seems not even the US/NATO is claiming it was the Russians at this point. Actually, I’m not certain if they ever did so in the first place? I honestly don’t remember.
Yeah this article is missing the mark. Much like the larger conflict the U.S. is going to throw Ukranians under the bus for it’s own agenda, like selling oil and gas to the EU at wildly inflated rates.
I don’t think Americans or Ukrainians can complain. The US gets to sell oil and weapons, and Ukraine gets the weapons they need. It’s win-win.
How exactly is the U.S. selling oil and weapons a win for anyone unless you’re a Raytheon or Exxon executive?
I did want to also follow up that selling weapons to the Ukrainian people is a huge win for them. They are in desperate need of them to defend their land. I’m not sure how I missed this in my first response 😂
I mean, there are active duty Ukranian soldiers that are missing limbs. How exactly did a forever war in Afghanistan work out for the general populace aside from annihilating a generation.
there are active duty Ukranian soldiers that are missing limbs
Then ask Russia to stop invading? That would help.
Have you ever played 4x games? What does it mean when an opponent starts ringing your territory with bases and trying to get everyone to ally against you?
Also if Russia just packed up and left today do you believe that there wouldn’t be an immediate ethnic cleansing of the eastern Ukranian, Russian speaking population?
Not well, but the US wasn’t exactly there to liberate Afghanistan…
They aren’t interested in liberating Ukraine either. They have been on the wrong side of every fucking military conflict for like 75 years, but now they have decided to be liberators?
I meant it more in the context of the article as a motive for shutting down the nord stream. The list of why NATO countries (and Ukraine) would want to stop it goes on and on.
Personally, I’m just happy that a revenue stream for Putin’s mafia has been shut down. As has now been shown, nothing good comes from money going to his oligarchs.
edit: If you want to know the lengths US congressmen will go for money, look at what happened to the Middle East. I’m not saying that’s what happened to the nord stream, but it’s honestly plausible to me that either side blew it up.
I am not itching to find out who because whatever the case, Russia should learn to stay within its borders. It’s less money flowing into it, and that makes me happy.
Russia now sells oil and gas through Saudi Arabia who sells it to the EU at a sizeable markup. Russia is still selling their gas and oil, just through an intermediary and their economy has been almost unphased despite an initial drop at the beginning of the 2020 offensive. Russia had only money to lose by blowing up it’s own oil pipeline, the U.S. has benefited immensely through oil/gas sales to countries affected.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/14/energy/russia-oil-exports-iea-report/index.html
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1009056/gdp-growth-rate-russia/
That’s interesting about Saudi’s Arabia, but their economy has most definitely taken a hit. It’s easy to fluff market numbers when you aren’t allowed to sell stocks. Just look at the most recent ruble prices.
It’s easy to fluff market numbers when you aren’t allowed to sell stocks
Stock buybacks and other practices demonstrate that fluffing market numbers when you are allowed to sell stocks can be quite easy as well.
Why sell oil when the US can sell weapons? It helps that Russia can’t sell theirs.
Right? And they are the mothballed shit that was gonna rot in a wearhouse instead of doing what they are supposed to do: blow Russians into tiny peices.
Now we get to watch a field test in war conditions, restock our own troops with even better shit, design strategies with the use of drones after watching how well the Ukrainian military are using them, and sit on our ass providing intelligence while the Russians get royally fucked.
Unhinged
:pit::stalin-gun-1::stalin-gun-2:
This is a win/win for everyone except Russian invaders.
Well, and all the dead ukrainians
I’m sure the majority of Ukrainians would rather fight for their very existence instead of rolling over and ending up a Russian satellite state again.
Yes, because they would much rather undergo another Holodomor.
Russian mercy is well understood.
Saying the holodomor was a genocide is the same as saying the dust bowl was a genocide.
Please engage with contemporary, mainstream historians who have studied the now open Soviet archives. I recommend R. W. Davies and Stephen G. Wheatcroft, The Years of Hunger: Soviet Agriculture, 1931-1933. You can just read the introduction (all but the first edition) where they discuss and go into detail on Holodomor as genocide. It’s in English and pretty accessible to lay people. The rest of the book will likely be of no interest to you, as it’s part of a series of very dry academic publications by the authors that goes into the minutiae of Soviet agriculture. If that interests you, go for it.
This book is in libgen.
HoLOLodomor
“Of course it does! We trained those divers well, they wouldn’t generate evidence for our investigators to find that points back to us now would they?”Great, the hexbear loonies escaped the asylum again
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=FVbEoZXhCrM
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
obviously with the support and assent of the US, but it is a funny counterfactual if the US posturing had actually been to politically pressure the end of Nordstream & it actually fucked up the plan when rogue ukrainians blew it up
I figured that was pretty obvious. It should not have been built in the first place.
Der Spiegel is running Russian propaganda now? Shameful.
Also shameful is that privacy popup with no opt-out option. Isn’t that non-compliant?
Sure, because reporting on facts is Russian propaganda the moment you don’t like these facts. Good to know that most morons actually love autoritarian regimes without press freedom and like being controlled by propaganda. They simply disagree on who should be the one to spoon-feed them their latest believes.
