Further, it’s the Kim family, Un is half of Kim Jong-Un’s given name. The fact that you have no clue how Korean names work yet feel confident in speaking about it is just chauvanism, same with your racist rant against Russians.
Finally, the Soviet Union was neither fascist nor imperialist. Fascism supports private property and the bourgeoisie, socialism supports the proletariat and collectivized property. They are opposites. Read Blackshirts and Reds.
Ah yes, “brainwashing doesn’t exist”, just another invention of the evil Americans to explain why people totally voluntarily adore authoritarian regimes. Let’s pretend people are just licensing themselves into blind loyalty under oppressive systems. Very empowering.
Appreciate the name correction, truly the most pressing issue here. Definitely not the labor camps, famine, or absolute control over a nation. Glad to know you’re more offended by a naming convention than, say, public executions.
And of course, the USSR wasn’t imperialist, it just “liberated” countries like Hungary, Czechoslovakia, and Afghanistan with tanks and secret police. It showered Chechnya with love and freedoms. You see, when the West does it, it’s imperialism. When the USSR does it, it’s “proletarian internationalism.” Totally different.
The entire project of MKUltra was the US trying and failing to prove brainwashing exists. The fact of the matter is that socialists support socialist systems because of the benefits they provide, like greater access to healthcare and education, and more democratization than capitalist systems. It isn’t blind loyalty, but a genuine belief based on material improvements in their lives as compared to previous conditions that results in citizens of socialist countries defending their system. The same applies for USians that defend the genocidal imperialist US regime.
As for the name-correction, I pointed it out because anyone who has spent more than 5 seconds learning about Korea in general knows that Kim Jong-Un’s father was Kim Jong-Il, and Kim Il-Sung his father. If you’re trying to critique the persistence of the Kim family in the DPRK’s politics yet don’t even know their names, it’s abundantly clear that you have no clue what you’re talking about and have done no study, no reading. All you have is chauvanism. You cannot critique the DPRK based on vibes, you need to actually study it, otherwise your critique is just based on personal feelings of superiority.
Yes, the Soviet Union liberated many areas, but millitary intervention isn’t imperialism. Imperialism is a method of economic extraction. The US and western Europe are imperialist becayse they use their vast financial capital to expropriate vast sums of wealth from the global south, the USSR never practiced that, nor could it, as its economy wasn’t based on financial capital but public ownership and collective planning. The majority of people who lived in the Soviet Union want it back.
Please, read a book. I linked several articles and books for you to serve as a good start, right now you’re just proving the meme correct with your far-right chauvanism driving all of your points. You’re so far-right even Wikipedia is too “woke” for you for showing that “brainwashing” doesn’t exist and was just an invention of the CIA during the Cold War.
That was a lot of words to say :“I read some propaganda and now I think I understand the world better than everyone else.”
“Brainwashing doesn’t exist.”
So we’re tossing out decades of psychological research, cult deprogramming, coercive reeducation tactics all because the CIA tried and failed to weaponize it? That’s like saying gravity doesn’t exist because Wile e Coyote fell off a cliff too many times. Congrats on discovering that governments lie, but somehow you skipped the part where all of them do, not just the ones with Wall Street.
“People support socialism because it brings material benefits.”
Ah yes, North Korea, the global poster child for free healthcare, happiness and freedom. People aren’t starving in silence because they love rice rations and songbun caste systems, no, they’re just really passionate about collectivism, right?
“Name correction proves you don’t know anything.”
Imagine thinking that knowing Kim Il-Sung fathered Kim Jong-Il makes you an expert on geopolitics. That’s like bragging you know Mario’s last name is also Mario and thinking it qualifies you to lecture on Italian history.
“The USSR wasn’t imperialist, it just used tanks to liberate people.”
This is peak doublespeak. When NATO intervenes, it’s imperialism. When the USSR does it, it’s “liberation.” Did the Afghans and Hungarians send thankyou cards or just more bodies to the gulag?
“Imperialism is only economic.”
Tell that to the Eastern Bloc countries whose economies were entirely dependent on Soviet central planning, political obedience, and “fraternal aid” in the form of puppet regimes. But sure, because they didn’t have a Wall Street, they were basically saints.
“Wikipedia is too woke for you.”
Right, because when your position collapses under basic scrutiny, the only move left is to call anyone who disagrees far-right. Classic tankie bingo. Sorry, but being critical of all oppressive regimes doesn’t make someone “far-right.” It makes them intellectually consistent, something you clearly struggle with.
You want people to read? Try reading beyond niche tankie pdfs. Read Solzhenitsyn. Read The Gulag Archipelago. Read defectors stories. Or maybe talk to people who actually lived under these regimes instead of roleplaying revolution.
You’re not antiimperialist. You are not even acommunist, you just like the taste of authoritarian boot from the east.
“Brainwashing” isn’t gravity. I didn’t think I had to explain this, but the decades of research failed to materialize any proof of “brainwashing.” This is extremely stupid. Propaganda exists, and works by appealing to already felt material realities.
As for the DPRK, they do have free healthcare and education, and the period of starvation was largely in the 90s during the dissolution of the USSR, their largest trading partner. The DPRK isn’t a paradise, but most of its issues are due to US sanctions, similar to Cuba. It wasn’t until the mid-80s that the ROK managed to surpass the DPRK in terms of economic growth, and the DPRK lost 20% of their population and 80% of their buildings in the Korean War thanks to the US Empire’s genocidal campaign. Northern Koreans support their system largely because despite the absolutely brutal conditions they find themselves in, they still manage to maintain better metrics than peer capitalist countries.
Further, my point was that brainwashing was levied at all socialist systems with popular support, from Cuba to the USSR to Vietnam to the PRC to Laos, etc. Most of these have managed better metrics than the DPRK, in fact it was originally the Chinese communists and American POWs that defected that were accused of being brainwashed.
And no, me knowing the major members of the Kim family doesn’t make me an expert, at all. In fact, my point is that it’s the bare minimum requirement, and you failed to meet even that. I have a lot of studying to do on Korean history, the fact that you thought it was the Un family was proof of your own failure to meet the minimum understanding necessary to have a conversation.
Imperialism is a system of economic extraction. Millitary interventionism can aid imperialism or hinder it depending on the conditions at play. It was not imperialist for the Union to invade the Confederacy. Again, the majority of people who lived in the Soviet Union want it back.
You aren’t being intellectually consistent. You cling to “brainwashing” as a valid theory despite nobody believing it in the modern scientific community. You claim your own incredible lack of knowledge on the DPRK is somehow indicative of my intellectual failings. You’ve brought no sources, no proof, no logic, all rhetoric and no substance. If not even liberal sources like Wikipedia believe in brainwashing, and the Leftists discount it entirely, it’s only the far-right that clings to it.
I absolutely love that you’re recommending me the Gulag Archipelago, a work of fiction, as a valid counter to the history, facts, and statistics I’ve provided. You should read Russian Justice, an actual work of non-fiction. Wikipedia is not a “niche tankie PDF.” Neither is the Ash Center for research, nor the New York Times. I have spoken to people that lived and live in socialism. I’m a communist, and an anti-imperialist, and you’re proving the meme absolutely correct.
You’re not a revolutionary. You’re a cosplayer with a complex and a folder full of cherrypicked pdfs, reciting slogans like it’s still 1917 and pretending it makes you moral and intellectuall. It doesn’t.
“Brainwashing isn’t real, because the CIA couldn’t scientifically reproduce it.”
You do realize you just tried to argue that propaganda works because it reflects material conditions and in the same breath deny brainwashing, which is literally coercive propaganda. You’re not making a point. You’re just putting Marxist vocabulary on a merrygoround and hoping it makes you sound profound.
As for North Korea, spare me the “they have free healthcare” fairy tale. North Koreans also have free labor camps, free starvation, and free executions for watching the wrong movies. But sure US sanctions are why they have zero access to uncensored information and why three generations of a cult family rule with godlike authority. Blaming the U.S. for North Korea’s failures is like blaming the fire department for how your meth lab exploded.
“Knowing the names of the Kim family is the bare minimum.”
And yet somehow, despite your encyclopedic knowledge of Kim family trivia, you can’t manage basic moral clarity. You’re passionately defending a regime that murders people for trying to leave. But hey, they have education, right? Nothing says “quality schooling” like indoctrinating 5 year olds to worship a hereditary dictator.
“Imperialism is only economic.”
Tell that to the millions crushed under tanks, starved by planned economies, or shot for disobedience. Your definition of imperialism is so narrow it wouldn’t even cover the British Empire, but I’m sure it helps you sleep at night while defending military invasions by calling them “liberations.” You could hand Stalin a bayonet and a map and you’d still find a way to claim it was worker-led peacekeeping.
“Most Soviet citizens want it back.”
Nostalgia ≠ legitimacy. People miss stability. That doesn’t mean gulags, censorship, and breadlines were good. It means capitalism also failed them. But unlike you, they’re not worshiping the boot that stepped on them they just don’t like the new one either.
“The Gulag Archipelago is fiction.”
And your source is the New York Times a capitalist propaganda outlet according to your own ideology, until it magically agrees with you. The irony is delicious. You’ll dismiss Gulag Archipelago as fiction because Solzhenitsyn wasn’t state approved, but you’ll worship Soviet press releases as gospel. Your logic is as flexible as a Stalinist show trial
You are not an anti-imperialist. You’re just angry the wrong empire won.
Ah yes, cherry-picked pdfs from 1917 like the Wikipedia page for Brainwashing, a NYT article from Solzhenitsyn’s ex-Wife showing that the Gulag Archipelago is folklore, a book by Dr. Michael Parenti written in the 1990s, and a mid-2010s study from the Ash Center. Incredible cognitive dissonance on display on your part.
“Brainwashing” doesn’t exist. People license themselves to believe that the systems that they believe materially benefit them are good. This is how propaganda works. It isn’t possible for a truly brutal system that is horribly repressive to the majority of society to truly trick them into believing its good, it requires that there be a base level of truth to the system being materially beneficial. Capitalists in the US are more likely to believe it to be morally good, same with labor aristocrats bribed with the spoils from imperialism.
As for the DPRK, you have already proven that you have no idea what you’re talking about and have no sources. There’s nothing to discuss, here. Their rates of starvation are lower now than peer capitalist countries, the Arduous March was in the 90s when starvation was prevalent and the US magnified it by preventing them from trading goods they produced for foodstuffs in the global economy in a time of natural disaster.
Again, you go back to claims of “brainwashing,” which isn’t accepted by anyone anymore. Read North Korea: Another Country by Bruce Cummings, a liberal historian that is largely anti-DPRK yet still manages to provide an objective view of the real conditions and systems in the DPRK.
There were not “millions crushed under tanks,” unless you mean the millions of German Nazis killed by the Soviets when liberating the world from Hitler and the Nazis. The British Empire absolutely falls under the definition of imperialism, it used vast extractions from countries like India that ended up causing mass famines that killed millions of people, like the Bengal Famine of 1943.
People miss socialism, read the article. The safety nets provided by the socialist system worked far better than the system of rampant plunder that replaced it. 7 million excess deaths occured around the world thanks to the fall of the USSR. Poverty, sex work, wealth disparity, starvation, all skyrocketed while literacy and life expectancy fell.
Yes, I indeed used a right-wing, liberal source to debunk another right-wing work of fiction. Would you rather I use a communist source? Are only far-right sources that agree with your far-right views acceptable to you? Solzhenitsyn’s own ex-wife outed it as folklore, there was no historical evidence provided, just a large memoir written by a right-winger. This is what I mean by licensing, despite no historical backing, you defend a right-wing work of fiction because it conforms to your beliefs.
I’m an anti-imperialist. You still haven’t come up with a definition of imperialism that both includes the USSR while excluding the US’s Union invading the Confederacy as imperialist. You just rely on sloganeering and doublespeak, again proving the meme correct.
“Brainwashing” as a concept doesn’t exist. People license themselves to believe that which benefits them is good. The concept of “brainwashing” was invented by an American to justify why people support socialism. Read Masses, Elites, and Rebels: The Theory of “Brainwashing.”
Further, it’s the Kim family, Un is half of Kim Jong-Un’s given name. The fact that you have no clue how Korean names work yet feel confident in speaking about it is just chauvanism, same with your racist rant against Russians.
Finally, the Soviet Union was neither fascist nor imperialist. Fascism supports private property and the bourgeoisie, socialism supports the proletariat and collectivized property. They are opposites. Read Blackshirts and Reds.
Ah yes, “brainwashing doesn’t exist”, just another invention of the evil Americans to explain why people totally voluntarily adore authoritarian regimes. Let’s pretend people are just licensing themselves into blind loyalty under oppressive systems. Very empowering.
Appreciate the name correction, truly the most pressing issue here. Definitely not the labor camps, famine, or absolute control over a nation. Glad to know you’re more offended by a naming convention than, say, public executions.
And of course, the USSR wasn’t imperialist, it just “liberated” countries like Hungary, Czechoslovakia, and Afghanistan with tanks and secret police. It showered Chechnya with love and freedoms. You see, when the West does it, it’s imperialism. When the USSR does it, it’s “proletarian internationalism.” Totally different.
I guess you’re so far-right even Wikipedia is too “left” for you?
The entire project of MKUltra was the US trying and failing to prove brainwashing exists. The fact of the matter is that socialists support socialist systems because of the benefits they provide, like greater access to healthcare and education, and more democratization than capitalist systems. It isn’t blind loyalty, but a genuine belief based on material improvements in their lives as compared to previous conditions that results in citizens of socialist countries defending their system. The same applies for USians that defend the genocidal imperialist US regime.
As for the name-correction, I pointed it out because anyone who has spent more than 5 seconds learning about Korea in general knows that Kim Jong-Un’s father was Kim Jong-Il, and Kim Il-Sung his father. If you’re trying to critique the persistence of the Kim family in the DPRK’s politics yet don’t even know their names, it’s abundantly clear that you have no clue what you’re talking about and have done no study, no reading. All you have is chauvanism. You cannot critique the DPRK based on vibes, you need to actually study it, otherwise your critique is just based on personal feelings of superiority.
Yes, the Soviet Union liberated many areas, but millitary intervention isn’t imperialism. Imperialism is a method of economic extraction. The US and western Europe are imperialist becayse they use their vast financial capital to expropriate vast sums of wealth from the global south, the USSR never practiced that, nor could it, as its economy wasn’t based on financial capital but public ownership and collective planning. The majority of people who lived in the Soviet Union want it back.
Please, read a book. I linked several articles and books for you to serve as a good start, right now you’re just proving the meme correct with your far-right chauvanism driving all of your points. You’re so far-right even Wikipedia is too “woke” for you for showing that “brainwashing” doesn’t exist and was just an invention of the CIA during the Cold War.
That was a lot of words to say :“I read some propaganda and now I think I understand the world better than everyone else.”
So we’re tossing out decades of psychological research, cult deprogramming, coercive reeducation tactics all because the CIA tried and failed to weaponize it? That’s like saying gravity doesn’t exist because Wile e Coyote fell off a cliff too many times. Congrats on discovering that governments lie, but somehow you skipped the part where all of them do, not just the ones with Wall Street.
Ah yes, North Korea, the global poster child for free healthcare, happiness and freedom. People aren’t starving in silence because they love rice rations and songbun caste systems, no, they’re just really passionate about collectivism, right?
Imagine thinking that knowing Kim Il-Sung fathered Kim Jong-Il makes you an expert on geopolitics. That’s like bragging you know Mario’s last name is also Mario and thinking it qualifies you to lecture on Italian history.
This is peak doublespeak. When NATO intervenes, it’s imperialism. When the USSR does it, it’s “liberation.” Did the Afghans and Hungarians send thankyou cards or just more bodies to the gulag?
Tell that to the Eastern Bloc countries whose economies were entirely dependent on Soviet central planning, political obedience, and “fraternal aid” in the form of puppet regimes. But sure, because they didn’t have a Wall Street, they were basically saints.
Right, because when your position collapses under basic scrutiny, the only move left is to call anyone who disagrees far-right. Classic tankie bingo. Sorry, but being critical of all oppressive regimes doesn’t make someone “far-right.” It makes them intellectually consistent, something you clearly struggle with.
You want people to read? Try reading beyond niche tankie pdfs. Read Solzhenitsyn. Read The Gulag Archipelago. Read defectors stories. Or maybe talk to people who actually lived under these regimes instead of roleplaying revolution.
You’re not antiimperialist. You are not even acommunist, you just like the taste of authoritarian boot from the east.
“Brainwashing” isn’t gravity. I didn’t think I had to explain this, but the decades of research failed to materialize any proof of “brainwashing.” This is extremely stupid. Propaganda exists, and works by appealing to already felt material realities.
As for the DPRK, they do have free healthcare and education, and the period of starvation was largely in the 90s during the dissolution of the USSR, their largest trading partner. The DPRK isn’t a paradise, but most of its issues are due to US sanctions, similar to Cuba. It wasn’t until the mid-80s that the ROK managed to surpass the DPRK in terms of economic growth, and the DPRK lost 20% of their population and 80% of their buildings in the Korean War thanks to the US Empire’s genocidal campaign. Northern Koreans support their system largely because despite the absolutely brutal conditions they find themselves in, they still manage to maintain better metrics than peer capitalist countries.
Further, my point was that brainwashing was levied at all socialist systems with popular support, from Cuba to the USSR to Vietnam to the PRC to Laos, etc. Most of these have managed better metrics than the DPRK, in fact it was originally the Chinese communists and American POWs that defected that were accused of being brainwashed.
And no, me knowing the major members of the Kim family doesn’t make me an expert, at all. In fact, my point is that it’s the bare minimum requirement, and you failed to meet even that. I have a lot of studying to do on Korean history, the fact that you thought it was the Un family was proof of your own failure to meet the minimum understanding necessary to have a conversation.
Imperialism is a system of economic extraction. Millitary interventionism can aid imperialism or hinder it depending on the conditions at play. It was not imperialist for the Union to invade the Confederacy. Again, the majority of people who lived in the Soviet Union want it back.
You aren’t being intellectually consistent. You cling to “brainwashing” as a valid theory despite nobody believing it in the modern scientific community. You claim your own incredible lack of knowledge on the DPRK is somehow indicative of my intellectual failings. You’ve brought no sources, no proof, no logic, all rhetoric and no substance. If not even liberal sources like Wikipedia believe in brainwashing, and the Leftists discount it entirely, it’s only the far-right that clings to it.
I absolutely love that you’re recommending me the Gulag Archipelago, a work of fiction, as a valid counter to the history, facts, and statistics I’ve provided. You should read Russian Justice, an actual work of non-fiction. Wikipedia is not a “niche tankie PDF.” Neither is the Ash Center for research, nor the New York Times. I have spoken to people that lived and live in socialism. I’m a communist, and an anti-imperialist, and you’re proving the meme absolutely correct.
You’re not a revolutionary. You’re a cosplayer with a complex and a folder full of cherrypicked pdfs, reciting slogans like it’s still 1917 and pretending it makes you moral and intellectuall. It doesn’t.
You do realize you just tried to argue that propaganda works because it reflects material conditions and in the same breath deny brainwashing, which is literally coercive propaganda. You’re not making a point. You’re just putting Marxist vocabulary on a merrygoround and hoping it makes you sound profound.
As for North Korea, spare me the “they have free healthcare” fairy tale. North Koreans also have free labor camps, free starvation, and free executions for watching the wrong movies. But sure US sanctions are why they have zero access to uncensored information and why three generations of a cult family rule with godlike authority. Blaming the U.S. for North Korea’s failures is like blaming the fire department for how your meth lab exploded.
And yet somehow, despite your encyclopedic knowledge of Kim family trivia, you can’t manage basic moral clarity. You’re passionately defending a regime that murders people for trying to leave. But hey, they have education, right? Nothing says “quality schooling” like indoctrinating 5 year olds to worship a hereditary dictator.
Tell that to the millions crushed under tanks, starved by planned economies, or shot for disobedience. Your definition of imperialism is so narrow it wouldn’t even cover the British Empire, but I’m sure it helps you sleep at night while defending military invasions by calling them “liberations.” You could hand Stalin a bayonet and a map and you’d still find a way to claim it was worker-led peacekeeping.
Nostalgia ≠ legitimacy. People miss stability. That doesn’t mean gulags, censorship, and breadlines were good. It means capitalism also failed them. But unlike you, they’re not worshiping the boot that stepped on them they just don’t like the new one either.
And your source is the New York Times a capitalist propaganda outlet according to your own ideology, until it magically agrees with you. The irony is delicious. You’ll dismiss Gulag Archipelago as fiction because Solzhenitsyn wasn’t state approved, but you’ll worship Soviet press releases as gospel. Your logic is as flexible as a Stalinist show trial
You are not an anti-imperialist. You’re just angry the wrong empire won.
Ah yes, cherry-picked pdfs from 1917 like the Wikipedia page for Brainwashing, a NYT article from Solzhenitsyn’s ex-Wife showing that the Gulag Archipelago is folklore, a book by Dr. Michael Parenti written in the 1990s, and a mid-2010s study from the Ash Center. Incredible cognitive dissonance on display on your part.
“Brainwashing” doesn’t exist. People license themselves to believe that the systems that they believe materially benefit them are good. This is how propaganda works. It isn’t possible for a truly brutal system that is horribly repressive to the majority of society to truly trick them into believing its good, it requires that there be a base level of truth to the system being materially beneficial. Capitalists in the US are more likely to believe it to be morally good, same with labor aristocrats bribed with the spoils from imperialism.
As for the DPRK, you have already proven that you have no idea what you’re talking about and have no sources. There’s nothing to discuss, here. Their rates of starvation are lower now than peer capitalist countries, the Arduous March was in the 90s when starvation was prevalent and the US magnified it by preventing them from trading goods they produced for foodstuffs in the global economy in a time of natural disaster.
Again, you go back to claims of “brainwashing,” which isn’t accepted by anyone anymore. Read North Korea: Another Country by Bruce Cummings, a liberal historian that is largely anti-DPRK yet still manages to provide an objective view of the real conditions and systems in the DPRK.
There were not “millions crushed under tanks,” unless you mean the millions of German Nazis killed by the Soviets when liberating the world from Hitler and the Nazis. The British Empire absolutely falls under the definition of imperialism, it used vast extractions from countries like India that ended up causing mass famines that killed millions of people, like the Bengal Famine of 1943.
People miss socialism, read the article. The safety nets provided by the socialist system worked far better than the system of rampant plunder that replaced it. 7 million excess deaths occured around the world thanks to the fall of the USSR. Poverty, sex work, wealth disparity, starvation, all skyrocketed while literacy and life expectancy fell.
Yes, I indeed used a right-wing, liberal source to debunk another right-wing work of fiction. Would you rather I use a communist source? Are only far-right sources that agree with your far-right views acceptable to you? Solzhenitsyn’s own ex-wife outed it as folklore, there was no historical evidence provided, just a large memoir written by a right-winger. This is what I mean by licensing, despite no historical backing, you defend a right-wing work of fiction because it conforms to your beliefs.
I’m an anti-imperialist. You still haven’t come up with a definition of imperialism that both includes the USSR while excluding the US’s Union invading the Confederacy as imperialist. You just rely on sloganeering and doublespeak, again proving the meme correct.