I hate that our greatest hope is that the guy is 80 and has shit health.
Clearly the people aren’t going to actually do anything besides disapproving looks and politely asking him to stop ignoring the law and constitution.
Vance could be worse. So not like trump dying off will fix it all
The cult might fracture a bit though which is something we could hope for.
Which would just get us back to Reagan republicans or tea party republicans? Both just as horrid only better at PR
Actually the current split is closer to 4 groups. Reagan Republicans, Tea Party Republicans, MAGA diehards, and Fuentes Right. The number of real MAGA diehards is difficult to determine but I think most of them are actually members of the other three groups pretending to be diehards to gain favor with the president.
With the president’s death you’re gonna see the diehards split into the Vance and the Eric / JR camp. The other three won’t support Vance or JR and put up other candidates. Or a total split of the party.
I think something similar is happening to Democrats with Mainline Dems and Social Democrats, but this will be more like the original Tea Party split than what the right is doing.
3 of those groups are essentially the same and the 4th is just moved to the dnc, see senator cias state of the union rebuttal where they just go full we need to be like Reagan.
The 3 are the same because they all want to dismantle the state it’s only a difference on which corporation gets money.
If trump dies it’ll just be like the 2024 republican presidential primary where they compete more to get visibility rather than actual power.
They’re all capitalists. Literally every single faction you mentioned. The us will not cease committing atrocities under any feasible future leadership because the us will never allow socialist leadership. Hell, that’s probably the most consistent part of the us government going back more than a century.
Motherfucker thinks it’s only Trump and not the US Empire that’s the problem. Go read a book.
Trump is a symptom of the broader problem. His death isn’t the solution, even if it’s justice.
If all the lamenters in the US joined forces they’d have more people than J6 did. We can do it. We just need the will.
The US would be better off if it becomes a socialist/communist country during the Great Depression - if any of you wanted an idea on what that would be like, read the althistory story “Reds! A Revolutionary Timeline”.
nazi germany at least had the decency to die after 12 years
Good thing that they died on their own!
Lmao, what!?
It didn’t had any decency to die, it was smashed by Soviet Union, but it’s also not dead, it lives on in the USA, NATO and EU.
So I can’t see most of the comments here on hexbear, but In going to assume you have a bunch of libs agreeing that yes Trump has made it worse, a few comrades pointing out the US has always been like this, and then a shitton of dumbass lemmitors spouting ahistorical red-scare arguments in response to those comrades.
I should make a “liberal thoughttermination” flowchart. Everything they do is predetermined
Even got one blaming nazis invading Poland because they wanted to distract from government spending killing the German economy…
American Business has bought in. Here is Hilton hotels distancing themselves from one of their hotels that turned away ICE agents.
Don’t expect corporations to take a moral stance. They will always chose what they consider is more profitable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_involved_in_the_Holocaust - this is just for the Holocaust specifically. A list of companies collaborating with the Nazi regime would simply coincide with all the existing businesses at the time.
Hilton welcomes nazis - gotcha.
Boycott Hilton until they start exercising their third amendment rights.
It’s why I’m sharing this. But what gets me is where can we actually share this. Am I crazy or is there no real place something like this can get noticed? Where would you post it that wouldn’t get taken down by mods
I’ve decided to book at another chain because of this event
I’m not even booking in the US, but still, Hilton is Hilton. you take that risk by using the name.
The Nazis were inspired by what went on in America. Genocide, concentration camps, segregation, forced sterilization, taking the children, etc
lol worse than Nazi Germany?
Kids got no perspective nowadays if you thinking this is anything like that
Chuds when white people kill white people: 😢
Chuds when white people kill colored people: ☺️
Based on the reports of torture and abuse out of, “Alligator Alcatraz,” (God I fucking hate having to use that stupid fucking name), we are certainly heading there. They described torture techniques similar to CECOT, including denial of medical treatment. We don’t know what’s happening inside ICE detention facilities, but an alarming number of detainees are dying. We just kidnapped a sovereign head of state, and Trump is actively talking about doing the same to other nations.
Things don’t start at the end. There were six years between Hitler’s appointment as Chancellor and the invasion of Poland. It was five years between the opening of the first concentration camps and the mass interment of Jews, and another three years before they opened the gas chambers in Auschitz. If anything, 2025 has shown that this administration is moving faster than the Nazis, and the midterms will probably be our last chance to purge these people (including the Democrats who refuse to fight them) from our government before they kill what’s left of our democracy.
If the Democrats refuse to fight, then the midterms don’t mean shit. We also can’t ignore previous administrations that built the camps and deported in record numbers. The us has always been a democracy for the capitalists only. It’s a white supremacist settler colony, and we can’t scapegoat Trump just because he is like the living avatar of us cultural ideals in the worst way. Even if Democrats somehow have all three branches in '28 and somehow unfuck the supreme court, we cannot consider reform as an end in itself. They are still capitalists who will concede very little, if anything, to the people.
There’s a reckoning coming for Democrats as well. Their poll number are still rock bottom in their own base. Primaries are coming for Torres and Jefferies, and it’s basically assumed Schumer won’t have a Minority (or, dare to dream, Majority) position in the next Congress. Despite the entire Democratic establishment lining up against him, Mamdani won. I think, with a little luck, Democratic Socialism will be the norm by '28 (though they’ll probably call it, “Getting back to our New Deal roots,” or some shit).
Democratic Socialism will not be the norm because the Democratic party will not allow that to happen. What about recent party history gives you hope that this could occur? I find this hope to be naive.
Polling shows capitalism is on a downswing while socialism is on an upswing, especially within the Democratic party. Socialism is losing its status as a boogeyman. Beyond that, Mamdani’s Democratic Socialist platform is broadly popular across the country, and even as voters are voting heavily against Republicans in special elections, the democrats are still at historically low favorability levels.
Again, when I say Democratic Socialism will be the norm, I’m not saying that the majority of Democrats will identify as Democratic Socialists. I’m saying thst the majority of Democrats will adopt the policies of the Democratic Socialists or be primaried by candidates that do (and, again, they’ll probably frame it in the context of the New Deal rather than socialism). But the NYC mayoral election has made it clear that the corporate Democrats can no longer control the narrative, and I think it’s just the beginning.
Those polls select from us adults who are registered democrats. What makes you think the party elites give a shit what they think? I know it’s not past precedent. Democrats typically use polling to justify not changing things. The way they fought Mamdani clearly demonstrates this. One anomalous Mamdani cannot reasonably justify hope in electoral reform. Capital will do all it can to extinguish Socialism as it always does. This system was made by and for capitalists and cannot be used as the sole means of establishing a socialist system.
What makes you think the party elites give a shit what they think?
As I said, I think they’ll be out on their ass. Schumer will not get another term in leadership. Jefferies might, since he kept the House together on shutdowns, but his polling is still underwater and his days are numbered. The rank and file will go where the wind blows. We’ve already seen this when normie-centrists started dumping AIPAC money because of their base. I’m sure leadership will fight it until they’re ousted, and donor class will pivot to Republicans, but the average Dem politician would rather adopt a Democratic Socialist platform than lose their seat.
One anomalous Mamdani cannot reasonably justify hope in electoral reform.
Platner is also polling ahead or Mills despite the whole, “having a Nazi tattoo,” thing. Kat Abughazaleh is in a dead heat with Biss despite Biss having the establishment backing. Richie Torres is getting a DSA primary challenge after he had to drop his bid for governor against Hochul, and Hochul herself had to pivot to supporting Mamdani (she saw how the wind was blowing). There’s also Donavan McKinney primarying Shri Thanedar in Michigan, but I’m not following that one closely enough to say much about it. The point is, it’s not just Mamdani, there are several strong DSA or DSA-aligned challengers that are doing well.
Capital will do all it can to extinguish Socialism as it always does. This system was made by and for capitalists and cannot be used as the sole means of establishing a socialist system.
OK, well, the entire philosophy of Democratic Socialism is blending public ownership with heavily regulated private businesses using the current system of democratic institutions. If you think that Democratic Socialism is impossible, fair enough, you’re entitled your opinion and I’m not really interested in debating political theory. But even if you’re right, and Democratic Socialism will be a failure, I don’t think that means that the Democrats won’t adopt it.
You have no fucking perspective. As I wrote below half of my family is from a country where US imperial troops are responsible for the deaths of over a million people, destroying one of the oldest centers of knowledge and education, and taking a country previously known for training first-class doctors and sending them around the world to train to a place where people are struggling to survive with a literacy crisis. We already think they’re as bad. If you don’t think they are close to Nazi Germany you sound like white supremacist who doesn’t view people outside US/EU as humans.
Nazi germany explicitly tried to copy the US project (lebensraum evicting eastern europe, rather than manifest destiny evicting native americans), and failed.
The only reason nazi germany is demonized more than the US, is because they lost. The US has committed far more atrocities, and on a larger scale.
Yeah nazi germany is definitely worse, they killed a bunch of WHITE PEOPLE, there is no worse sin than that.
I am not sure whether we need a peeing contest who did/is doing worse. The immense suffering endured by individuals are uncomparable imho.
That being said, I recommend everyone to read “The Banality of Evil” by Hannah Arendt and to review the social experiments that were conducted to understand how average Germans were able to commit genocide. The dark truth is: you are likely able, too.
We are all responsible to prevent this.
The thing is, there was a (twisted, yes, but actually there) logic to what the Reich did. What the US does appears to be fairly random as they change their mind every other week, and their rants rarely, if ever, make any sense.
They’re trying to re-assert control as their super-profits from imperialism are drying up and they need to boost domestic manufacturing. It’s rational, but has evil consequences and can’t actually work.
We need socialism
Replacing a violent country with the system that historically always led to military dictatorships does not sound like a recipe for success.
You don’t need socialism, you need northern European style capitalism
The last anything anyone needs is European anything. European capitalism brought the world the USA, two world wars, and imperialism. They’re on a 80 year experiment of having a small amount of welfare but it has never been enough and that is about to end when they remilitarize
Colonialism was not capitalism, there’s nothing capitalist about taking prisoners and stealing land for government charted monopolies.
Meanwhile northern Europe has the highest standard of living, healthcare quality, accessibility and life expectancy. And all of it is being paid for with the spoils of capitalism
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You’re seriously going to tell me that Victorian imperialism wasn’t capitalism? That the rape of India wasn’t capitalism? That the Belgian congo wasn’t operated by capitalist investors? You’re ahistorical and an idiot. You think the Algerian colonies weren’t operated by European capitalists? Nazi Germany is a great example of European capitalism as well.
Your highest standard of living is based on capitalist exploitation of the entire world and the working class. Your sick, violent, white supremacist countries are about to flush it’s social democracy directly down the toilet to go to war with Russia too. Guns or Butter.
You’re delusional.
Talk with some actual capitalists, and they’ll all tell you that their core values are pretty much the opposite of whatever you’re describing here.
Capitalism is simply the most successful system in the world, so it’s an easy target for edgy teens who want something to blame for their failures.
But please do tell me how I’m exploiting the world, or how I’m violent or racist. Maybe you can call me an fascist incel so the word salad has all the cool things kids say nowadays
The only word I have for you is dipshit. Fuck off.
Brazil follows the great northern European style of capitalism and this shit doesn’t work if you don’t exploit the global south.
Brazil? Their maximum tax bracket isn’t even half of what I’m currently paying in taxes, and I’m not even in the highest bracket
Dude’s on another planet xD
wtf 💀
I speak with liberals all the time, you’re again confusing the values espoused by liberalism to justify capitalism with the actual material system as it exists in the real world. As for imperialism, it functions as follows:
-The presence of monopolies which play a decisive role in economic life.
-The merging of bank capital with industrial capital into finance capital controlled by a financial oligarchy.
-The export of capital as distinguished from the simple export of commodities.
-The formation of international monopolist capitalist associations (cartels) and multinational corporations.
-The domination and exploitation of other countries by militaristic imperialist powers, now through neocolonialism.
-The territorial division of the whole world among the biggest capitalist powers.
The global north, Europe included, uses this export of capital to super-exploit foreign labor for super-profits. It also engages in unequal exchange, where the global south is prevented from moving up the value chain in production, allowing the global north to charge monopoly prices for commodities produced in the same labor hours.
Y’know, I was expecting a word salad of being called an incel, instead this is just a word salad of calling everything a monopoly. Half of the things you point to here are governmental actions, not capitalism. Capitalism is an economic system, not an ideology, it doesn’t control what the government should or shouldn’t do. And none of it even relates to the topic at hand, which was colonialism.
And financial oligarchies are 100% just a hallucination, prettied up in fancy words so it sounds like you’re making an argument. You do not need permission from an oligarchy to make financial transactions.
If the global north would stop trading with the global south, to “fix” this supposed exploitation, people like you would be the first to start crying about how an embargo on the south is preventing them from moving up the value chain in production. There is no logic here, just accusations. You have nothing to show but an attitude
Colonialism was absolutely an aspect of capitalism. You are correct that these high standards of living are paid for by capitalism, just that it’s stolen value from the labor of the global south through imperialism, not through European labor.
Private property and freedom of association are core aspects of capitalism, colonialism did none of those things. Capitalism didn’t arrive in the colonies until the colonists left.
Slaves were considered private property in the USAmerica, right?
Was USAmerica a colony during their civil war?Private property alone doesn’t make capitalism, by that logic the ancient civilzations of egypt and sumer would already be capitalist. Capitalism is a collection of ideas, from the right to own private property to freedom of association, none of which is compatible with slavery.
Which is a big reason why the capitalist countries were the first to outlaw slavery.
The US Empire is still a settler-colony, to be clear.
You’re confusing values espoused by liberalism with the consequences of economies dominated by private property. Colonialism was driven by capitalism, and justified by liberalism. Further, I am talking about ongoing imperialism, not just colonialism.
just what exactly is liberal about invading foreign countries and submitting them to production quota’s at the threat of death?
This guy doesn’t know what socialism is and is too scared of bogeymen to learn.
You should take a drive through Eastern Europe and see how real that boogeyman is
I’ve been! Met some lovely people. Saw some beautiful places. You should try leaving your home city just once in your sheltered closeted little life.
The world is not what Fox News is telling you it is.
Lmao, I am European. Wtf would I need to watch Fox news for?
Sorry bud but painting a stereotype is not really defending your position. Did CNN tell you that that was OK?
Well I figured you were either some dipshit from the flyover counties or, far more likely, an employee of a troll farm. I figured I’d give you the benefit of the doubt.
Oh yeah, all very good points. Maybe you can also call me a sexist fascist bigoted incel, that’ll really show off your knowledge on the subject
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Eastern Europe hasn’t been socialist for 3 decades. What you see is the devastation of capitalism and western imperialism plundering formerly functional states.
You could argue that they’ve never been socialist, because like every other attempt it just devolved into military dictatorships. The effects of that attempt are still present today. Take any political or social map of Germany and you can still see where the old borders were
No, you cannot make that argument, because it isn’t true. Socialist states have had the working classes in control of the state, and this is proven with hard evidence from the opening of the soviet archives confirming leftist documentation and reporting within the SU. As for the former GDR, the communists were purged in show trials by the west, which never genuinely de-Nazified. That’s why there’s a far-right reaction there.
Mate, even the majority of socialists disagree with this view, let alone someone who is critical of socialism.
The USSR was a dictatorship full of nepotism and corruption, where you could get jailed for the dumbest reasons, ranging from being gay to practicing karate. None of these rules were established by workers and all of them were created by the bureaucracy.
The workers were the people who ended the USSR
Socialism has always led to working class control of the state. It’s a recipe for the uplifting of the working classes. European style capitalism relies on imperialism to fund their safety nets, and as imperialism is weakening so too are the safety nets, which is why austerity politics and the far-right are on the rise in Europe.
Please, do tell me more about… let’s say… the luxembourgish imperialism. Did they conquer any new nation recently?
Luxembourg’s role within western imperialism is as a tax haven. It’s a micronation that gets wealthy off of finance capital and being a glorified and legalized money laundering scheme.
So imperialism is… not taxing people? That’s a very fluid take on it
No? Imperialism is as I already laid out for you, a process by which the global north, dominated by monopoly finance capital, exports capital to the global south to super-exploit foreign labor for super-profits. Luxembourg’s role in that international system is as a foreign tax haven for the imperialists.
imperialism, state policy, practice, or advocacy of extending power and dominion, especially by direct territorial acquisition or by gaining political and economic control of other areas.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/imperialism
You know you can just look up these thing right?
Not taxing your citizens, is not imperialism. Luxembourg is not an imperialist country.
The process that you’re describing is called free trade. As soon as the global south doesn’t want to partake in this trade, they can stop. And Luxembourg wouldn’t have anything to say on that matter.
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Meanwhile people in US:
Fascists gonna fascist i guess 💁♂️
Not a lot of people think it’s fine, but nobody a tually has a clue what to do/ doesn’t want to start it
The solution is to organize. PSL already organized protests across dozens of major cities, and is constantly recruiting.
i’ve learned the hard way that some nuero-divergent behaviors (like mine) sow distrust within neuro-typical people who won’t let you help organize w them out of instinctual fear.
the last times i tried with the greens; lgbtq center in san jose; and the gmhc in new york; they had me spending the overwhelming majority of my time picking up garbage in parking lots and roads by myself.
the last 2 times were galling because i was a software engineer at the time w 10+ years of experience in IT and offered my services as a response to their advertised needs for IT & web developers/admins; yet i was only picking up garbage alone 95% of the time.
That’s a terrible way to be treated. I hope you have a better experience if you ever choose to try again.
fortunately my neurodivergence makes me forget A LOT so it’s likely that i will try again. lol
Haha I relate to that. I recently started applying to something, got hung up on a question, and realized I had started the process already and gotten hung up on the same spot
I’m sorry to hear that, comrade. Lack of party discipline in how neurodivergent comrades are treated is a sign of serious problems witu the org itself.
That’s the social democrats/Democratic Socialists for ya!
I seriously doubt that unless they ramp up their shit a lot
The US Empire is dying, when it finally caves the spotlight will be on the constant genocide, plunder, and warmongering this empire did.
British Empire is dead and buried but most wouldn’t consider them worse than Nazi Germany
It’s merely vassalized, not dead and buried. The UK is still imperialist.
I’m not sure what that matters for the topic at hand.
The British Empire is neither gone nor forgotten.
The whole point was if they’re going to be viewed worse than Nazi Germany. Do you feel like there’s a point where the empire is gone and people will switch to thinking of it worse than Nazi Germany?
It hasn’t happened yet and I don’t see it happening tbh.
Depends on who you ask.
Israel is way ahead
Israel is downstream of the US. That’s like saying Texas is worse.
We’re not there yet, and I hope we don’t go that far.
Europeans are overreacting, and Americans (particularly our Democrat representatives) are underreacting. That’s where we are at right now.
It’s a weird thing to see people who don’t know how the US works flip out, while also watching tons of elected representatives pretend nothing is going on. Then there’s the MAGA people… Holy shit are they delusional.
I wouldn’t say Europe are overreacting. This particular post, “worse than nazi Germany”, yes, but atm they are being a bit too complicit in things like the US bombing and kidnapping the head of a foreign nation…
However the US isn’t literally building camps with the explicit purpose of mass murder and genocide. Don’t get me wrong, they’re still doing a lot of nazi and atrocious shit, but distinguishing the nuance is important.
the US isn’t literally building camps with the explicit purpose of mass murder and genocide
This is a complete mischaracterization of how camps began and evolved in nazi germany while also downplaying the horror of ice detention centers and mass deportations to foreign concentration camps. I’m sure you’ve heard of CECOT. Ever heard this quote?
“We, as the Security Cabinet, will ensure that the penalties are high enough so that none of those who enter CECOT will ever leave walking; they will only be able to leave in a coffin”
But hey, that’s just coming from the Minister of Justice and Public Security of El Salvador. If tens of thousands of people are condemned to die there, is that not mass murder? Keep in mind, this, from the us government’s perspective, is a service they are paying for. Also, this is only one of many arrangements the us has for mass deportation. Please keep in mind, the nazi camps were certainly not all in Germany.
Basically, you’re blurring a whole lot of lines here with your comment.
Honestly, with the lack of democratic party strength I’m honestly starting to wonder if everyone who is supporting change isn’t just put into the shit list social media algorithm so that they just can’t get any traction or coalition going. Like we are so sensitive to what we see on social media it honestly wouldn’t surprise me to learn that all the family support they would normally have is eroded by depressed family members who have just been destroyed by the algorithm. In 2011 Facebook was showing how they could alter people’s feed to change peoples moods based on what they are being shown and in what order. That was a long time ago and they stopped publishing their findings. Who knows how sophisticated they have been able to be now. Like why is Walz stepping down? He wasn’t involved in the fraud, why is he giving up the fight?
History has been kind to it so far despite its crimes since inception
Because the American Empire hasn’t fallen yet.
Give me any nazi atrocity and I can provide an example of the US doing it, and probably far worse and on a larger scale.
Hate to be that guy, but as much as the US sucks it’s no Nazi Germany. Broad estimates of US war victims range up to 12 million (a liberal estimate), whereas the Nazis killed over 13 million through mass killings alone (eg the Holocaust + exterminated minorities). The Soviet Union alone lost 20 to 27 million depending on who you ask.
Even if you take the most extreme interpretation of US responsibility possible (eg adding another 1-1.7 million people for “luring” the Soviet Union into attacking Afghanistan), you don’t get to 25 million. Which again, the Nazis killed in the Soviet Union alone.
Making these sorts of wild statements only invites scrutiny over the numbers and creates an argument you will lose. It’s far more effective to list more recent atrocities and zoom in on individual cases and motivations. Let’s also not understate the tremendous losses the Soviet Union took.
Even if you take the most extreme interpretation of US responsibility possible (eg adding another 1-1.7 million people for “luring” the Soviet Union into attacking Afghanistan), you don’t get to 25 million
Bullshit. One single US (+EU) policy, economic sanctions, has murdered 38 million in the past 50 Years and keeps murdering 500k yearly. One single policy.
Yeah nazi Germany was around for 13 years ish. I’m not saying there’s no comparison, I’m just saying there’s no comparison, yet.
You should know that these figures are fairly disputed. This specific study comes from a Venezuelan think-tank specifically set up to advocate for sanction relief. It also has some findings that go against previously established literature (such as stating that UN sanctions are less harmful than US sanctions, whereas previous studies found the opposite (eg https://www.econstor.eu/bitstream/10419/215035/1/cesifo1_wp8033.pdf). There’s also debate as to how much of this is causation and how much is correlation. Plus there’s no analysis regarding improved life expectancy after sanction relief compared to a scenario where no sanctions were instated in the first place.
Also, be aware that historically these arguments were used for example to seek sanction relief for Apartheid South-Africa.
According to you, is there Apartheid in Venezuela? Hell, the US and Israel tried to keep the regime in South Africa going for as long as they could, so it doesn’t even make much sense. Not only that, but sanctions STILL cause the deaths of over 500k people a year. People like you and me. Stop defending imperialism and mass death.
Again, these numbers are seriously disputed. And while there isn’t apartheid in Venezuela, there is significant suppression of freedom. 20% of the country packed up and left, a stark contrast with the Chavez days when Venezuela saw huge immigration instead.
Hell, the US and Israel tried to keep the regime in South Africa going for as long as they could, so it doesn’t even make much sense.
There are other countries than the US and Israel you know.
Broad estimates of US war victims range up to 12 million (a liberal estimate), whereas the Nazis killed over 13 million through mass killings alone (eg the Holocaust + exterminated minorities). The Soviet Union alone lost 20 to 27 million depending on who you ask.
In addition to the 500k-millions of native peoples and hundreds of tribes the US systematically nearly eradicated, lets take just a few more examples.
- Vietnam: 1.5M killed
- Laos: 300k
- Iraq: 1M
- Indonesia: 500k-1M
- Korea: 500k
- Japan: 200k-1M in civilian bombings
And I haven’t even started on operation condor and latin america yet.
And US America is still going, the worst is yet to come
Not disputing that, but Nazi Germany trumps that in numbers easily. If we take the upper estimates of these you get 5.5 million people (only half of the liberally estimated total of 12 million).
Again, I’m not disputing how horrible this all is, but it’s just not the same. This is decades of US warfare compared to just 6-9 years of Nazi Germany. And the comparison gets even worse considering world population at the time was much lower than it is now.
Sounds like they are in good company, millions is millions, but I’d argue America has committed more genocides.
Bro just admit it, US is the OG third Reich. It was literally founded on Genocide and kept doing it until the Native population became irrelevant. The Nazis literally planned Lebensraum after being inspired by ‘Manifest Destiny’ and modeled the Nuremberg laws after the Jim Crow. I suggest you read a book.
I’m not disputing US atrocities, I’m saying that claiming it’s worse than the Nazis were will invite heavy, imo legitimate scrutiny.
I am once again telling you to pick up a history book on US imperialism. You fucks just care about atrocities more when it’s inflicted on white people more than when it’s inflicted on colored people. The US literally preserved fascism in the western hemisphere to prevent the spread of Socialism.
I am taking atrocities against people of colour into account. These were genocidal and unequivocally horrible. But one really shouldn’t start understating the crimes of Nazi Germany to make the US look worse. It already looks terrible, comparing it to the Nazis makes it look comparatively better which is the opposite of what you’re trying to achieve (seriously, just the number of people killed in the Soviet Union is insane conceptually).
US atrocities, crimes and genocides can stand on their horrible own and be sufficiently terrible to convince people that the US is shit.
I hope you take a moment and reflect on why you insist on approaching comparative history in this way.
Maybe it’s because this is a comment thread about comparative history being performed in the same manner?
The post does not go into kill counts as a direct comparison. It simply states that the us will be remembered as worse than nazi germany. So no, that is not the reason. I’m calling out your behavior specifically as problematic.
Because that’s what Dessalines did, and I literally mentioned they probably shouldn’t do that.
The real tragedy is that of the victims who got stuck in the middle between two doctrines hell-bent on global domination.
The case of Imperial Japan is equivalent to that of Nazi Germany. A fascist regime that saw millions intentionally slaughtered and worked to death across Asia.
Here are some links for reading more about the killings related to:
This popped up in my feed today:
The US nearly completely wiped out the indigenous people who lived there
When European settlers arrived in the Americas, historians estimate there were over 10 million Native Americans living there. By 1900, their estimated population was under 300,000. Native Americans were subjected to many different forms of violence, all with the intention of destroying the community. In the late 1800s, blankets from smallpox patients were distributed to Native Americans in order to spread disease. There were several wars, and violence was encouraged; for example, European settlers were paid for each Penobscot person they killed. In the 19th century, 4,000 Cherokee people died on the Trail of Tears, a forced march from the southern U.S. to Oklahoma. In the 20th century, civil rights violations were common, and discrimination continues to this day.
Multiple millions of people were captured in Africa and sold as slaves as well
Gosh, I guess we should talk about the British then as well.
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/12/2/how-british-colonial-policy-killed-100-million-indians
Yes. They are the predecessor to the American empire.
Surely we’d attribute most of those murders to the British Empire and the other colonisers at the time, no? The vast majority of these people died before the US even conceptually existed.
Again, not disputing that all of this is fucking horrible, but it’s not somehow “worse” than the sum of crimes committed by Nazi Germany (as far as comparing atrocities goes that is, which feels like something one shouldn’t compare too much. Each one is one too many after all).
The vast majority of these people died before the US even conceptually existed.
Germany didn’t write the holocaust out of their history like Americans did.
To mock the line I keep seeing in this thread full of apologists: Nazi Germany wasn’t quite there yet. They would have been as bad as the US if they had time.
I think it’s not unreasonable to think that Nazi Germany was worse than the US. Given time, it wouldn’t have even been a contest, absolutely true.
You’re also very right in criticising the US for not properly owning up to their atrocities. Germany has indeed done much better on that front.
Nazi Germany literally modeled their society off of the United States from Jim Crow apartheid to the frontier genocide.
You’re wrong. It’s not a contest. If they had been allowed to ‘let things that happened a hundred years ago fade away’ like they were planning THEN it would be a contest because they would have succeeded in creating a European America.
The project of Nazi Germany is literally the same project as Israel is literally the same project as America
It is exactly one thing: Settler colonialism and the only difference is the conditions of when and where and who. But that only goes as far as the particulars.
You’re wrong. It’s not a contest.
That’s what I said, maybe explain that to Dessalines who started this comparison.
There’s a bit of a difference though between settler colonialist states and Nazi Germany. As much as Nazi Germany also sought to colonise towards their east, they also attempted to genocide “undesirables” at an industrialised pace, murdering even ethnic Germans if they had some kind of disability. Racial and genetic purity was paramount to them, to a far greater degree than the US.
Again, none of this is denying the atrocities committed by any of these states.
The vast majority of these people died before the US even conceptually existed.
Disgusting take, acting as if genocide was not colonial policy. You desperately need to read Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz - an indigenous people’s history of the US.
Thanks for the recommendation comrade, I’ll add it to my list
Of course it was colonial policy. But it doesn’t stand to reason to primarily attribute those to the US as an entity, rather than the British, French or Spanish empires who instituted these policies and were responsible for them.
That’s not to say the US doesn’t have its own share in this history, but attributing the entire genocide to the US makes little sense since they didn’t exist for the majority of it.
They also partook in widespread ecocide to starve the natives. They deliberately killed every buffalo they could and let them out to rot.
Simply trying to compare kill counts like history is call of duty only serves to dehumanize the victims.
In my view, just one aspect of the U.S. makes it the worst country ever: its role in the ecological crisis. The us is like three corporations in a trench coat, and a us corporation knew about anthropogenic climate change and kept that internal, and that’s just one instance of fuckery where there are plenty more. That’s the international elephant in the room which nobody seems willing to talk about. We need to also consider all the future atrocities as well as those in the past.
Fully agreed that comparing “kill counts” is dehumanizing. Hence why I commented saying you shouldn’t invite these comparisons in the first place, because people will find an argument and you’ll get lost in the weeds.
A huge amount of deaths are directly caused by US sanctions in numerous countries.
You should count those
The US has done many horrible things, but that’s an awful list to go by. It mixes US involvement in the Philippines and the nightmare that was with “Israel killed someone and it’s likely the US was aware”, NATO involvement in Bosnia, and the US usage of radio and press releases to influence world opinion in its favor.
Specific incidents in Bosnia? Certainly. But on the face of it, the US joining with other nations to intervene in an ethnically driven civil war isn’t an attrocity. The US being aware of an Israeli operation isn’t a US attrocity. Propaganda isn’t an attrocity.
Hell, one entry literally seemed to be “American soldiers reported a South Korean war crime through appropriate channels, and this didn’t change US foreign policy”Mixing actual attrocities in with the benign or unrelated things just dilutes the actual attrocities, particularly when the preamble says to play up to emotional outrage.
Someone didn’t read a history book.
Killing 6 million jewish people?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_genocide_in_the_United_States - 4+ million Native Americans killed in a time when overall populations where much lower. If that number were scaled to the 20th century population it would be an order of magnitude higher.
Killed an entire continent of peoples and enslaved millions of people from another one to make agricultural commodities.
Also during ww2 the US refused a ship of jews fleeing nazi germany and made them return.
They also won’t make anti-semitism illegal cause freeze peach, so US cops often protect white supremacist groups during protests from righteously outraged ppl. US cops also often recruit directly from those groups, and use them to carry out illegal things actions they don’t want to be responsible for. There isn’t enough space here to even get into the US’s anti-semitic past.
Why do you only mention the Jewish people and not the Roma, the homosexual, the transgender, the socialist, the communist or the many other groups targeted? Far more than 6 million were targets of genocide by the Nazis.
At once, in a assembly way or specifically targeting Jewish people?
Plus it’s not like they were cool with those trying to escape Germany. And chance would have sided with Germany if Britain had fallen.
