This meme made sense in 2012, not when the Republic Party has decided to be the Anti-Democratic Party.
Not three months ago Gaza had a death toll well past fifty thousand by the most conservative estimates, not to mention the huge amounts of women and children maimed, malnourished and the wholesale destruction of the entire strip’s infrastructure.
Did the republicans do that or did y’all deny reality so much in the pursuit of tHe mOsT iMpOrTanT ElEctiOn oF oUr LiFeTimE that you don’t know what fucking color the sky is unless you ask the DNC first
Ao you’re on board with golden Trump statue instead of the strip then?
Who destroyed the Gaza Strip to begin with?
There would be no “Trump plan to rebuild Gaza” is Gaza wasn’t destroyed under Biden.
Why are you so “on board” with the destruction and genocide of Palestinians as long as it’s a Democrat doing it?
Are you… do you think Biden destroyed Gaza?
He funded, supported, and aided in it’s destruction, yes. Are you denying that he did?
Americacentrism never stops to amaze me. Do you believe that anything happens without your say in it?
I’d rather there were an actual human in the white house (or there not be an USA at all) but since libs are so spineless I think it’ll take the complete collapse of the US economy to get y’all to stop treating politics like a fucking team sport. You could put Mussolini on the blue team and y’all would yell at everyone for not shutting up and vooooooting.
We’re almost there, thank fuck.
This is such a bad faith argument you have to be oblivious to everything Trump has said and done to even consider it plausible.
Prior to the election, exactly what did Trump say or do that made you think he was going to inhibit the suffering of the Palestinians or impede Israeli attempts at genocide?
And since he has taken power, how has the situation improved at all due to his foreign policy. Because here in reality he repeatedly said Israel didn’t go far enough and that he would increase arm shipments to Israel. And after taking power he un paused the shipments that Biden halted to force Israel to the negotiation table.
There aren’t really polite terms that can be used for people who might have voted D in the last few elections but then decided they would protest vote and abstain when their best case scenario was to put Trump and all his corrupt possy. It’s like refusing to let your daughter go to prom with her boyfriend cause something about him makes you think he’s a dangerous creep, but then instead just letting her go out unsupervised with a known rapist who murdered his last victim.
When did we think Trump would make it worse in Isreal? When he said “Do what you have to”
Or when he said Biden is being to hard on Netanyahi
Maybe the time he told Isreal he would be their protector and not to vote for Harris
Last one for now: Trump tells Isreal to finish it up faster
Also, just for fun, he’s Biden telling Netenyahu he’s not doing enough to get the hostage deal done
Another good reminder that “tankie” just means anyone to the left of Nancy Pelosi.
All of those things, Biden did too. Biden allowed Israel to do whatever they wanted and he increased aid to them during the height of the offensive against the Palestinian people.
so you prefer trump and putin in power?
did the republicans do it? of course they did. the US has been funding israel for a long time.
See? Perfect example.
Without the republicans, Dems would have no one to hide behind when their many genocides are recounted.
so how does peace look to you? 1967 border?
Are you at all able to communicate with others without resorting to deflection and loaded questions?
simple enough questions but as you’re so busy campaigning against the dems you must be quite happy with trump?
I’m about as happy as I would have been with a dem, which is to say I hope they die and take the US with them and leave the rest of us alone finally.
What I’m saying is that the Republic Party is trying to dismantle democracy. You don’t have to be a fan of the politics of the Democratic Party to want to at least retain the shrivel of a democracy the US had before.
Democracy already died, and it died under a Democrat. We’ve been a true plutocracy since Citizen’s United v FEC. What actually would happen is the Democrats would defend the plutocracy until the Republicans inevitably win an election because they take advantage of people’s hatred of our situation.
If anything Democrats have moved further to the right recently
Receipts?
I can wait until you’re out of homeroom.
Literally all Democratic actions
Did you reply to the wrong comment?
Union busting, lavish funding for genocide, corporate tax cuts, no healthcare plan, increased funding for police, pro-fracking, pro-drilling, 'tough on immigration ', etc etc
I’m honestly looking for work in the EU. If I can land a job, I’ll get established and then bring my family over.
Get in before the backlash - “bloody Americans, coming over here, taking our jobs…”
People from the global south watching american fighting over who is less evil never gets old.
Jfc this is how your country got here in the first place. Absolutely relentless bothsidesing. What will it take for you to give up on the idea that they’re “basically the same”? Insurrection didn’t do it, fascism isn’t doing it. What will it take??? Morons
Our country got here by one party continuing to be more and more evil and the only other party following.
You dumbasses are going to bothsides your way into something very, very serious over there. Assuming you haven’t already
The Ratchet effect.
With this current trump slop, the democrats can shift farther right than they’ve ever been and gain tons of moderates and even conservatives who just feel sour on trump, and obviously they get the liberal moderates, because trump slop.
Republicans shift right by 10, dems shift right by 6 and seem progressive in comparison.
Billionaires continue getting richer, and we all get fucked. Eat, sleep, repeat.
Scenario I’ve been playing with:
Suppose you are kidnapped by two people. They tell you that one of them will shoot you and then let you go, but you get to decide who shoots. Person A says he will shoot you in the head. Person B says he will shoot you in the shoulder. Which do you choose?
The more think about this the more I like it. Both persons are clearly awful and contributed to the situation. Both could offer better choices but refuse. Both are rather similar in outcomes. But one is clearly worse.
Is it rational to choose to be shot at all? Is it rational to not choose the better of two alternatives?
Libs can’t win in reality so they make shit up
In your hypothetical made up story, kill them both
This is a false dichotomy though. I’d argue the fact that “escape” doesn’t even cross your mind in this hypothetical scenario is damning.
Yes, we would all love to escape. That would be amazing
We are literally stuck with the 2 currently. No amount of posting on here is going to change. There is literally not enough people who care in this country right now to change it fully.
You can either have the 2 options
That’s literally the only options in the US.
Yes we would love ranked voting
Yes we would love better options
Yes we would love for a magical solution to come and save us
It’s not like that. Trump fans would literally never let that happen right now. And because democrats couldn’t get the votes by not being perfect it may never happen.
Wanting “to escape” is leaving the fucking country. And you’re free to fucking leave. But if you actually wanted to help, you needed to choose democrate to hopefully get the change you wanted in.
Now the only way you’ll get change is when everything crumbles, and who knows how many die
how about campaigning for other, more radical, revolutionary parties? just admit that you guys somehow grew to like being dipped in sht because who stuck you in this sht barrel told you guys there’s acid outside of it.
Campaigning for a better person left us with the shitty person. This is actually real life, not just the internet where we can hope it gets better
And because democrats couldn’t get the votes by not being perfect
blueMAGA genocide deniers are as loathsome as their red counter parts.
More like
One offers to shoot you in the head and kill your loved ones.
One offers to shoot you in the head and kill a bunch of strangers.
Bank robber. Get away driver.
Would be a good analogy.
Yes, the bank robber shot and killed the clerk.
But they are both bank robbers
Who is more evil? The one that does the act or the one that enables it?
The bank is more evil
Then the people who claim to love you choose for you and say that getting shot in the head would be better for you. Any attempt to convince them otherwise is met with absolute disbelief.
If you don’t choose, then someone else chooses for you
I’d take some less evil, please.
Ooh, unlucky! You just happened to be one of the “sacrifices” they had to make!
Sorry. The Democrats sued less evil off the ballot.
The meme calls them diet Republicans though.
It’s just a different labeling. Contents are identical.
Do you really think the policies of both parties are identical?
Public or private policies?
I know the outcomes are identical.
They’re the same picture!
Relative to the other fully developed countries, a mainstream Democrat is a homeopathic liberal.
I don’t understand why people who think this don’t advocate for ranked choice voting. Seems like it would solve this issue, right?
No, RCV wouldn’t. The fundamental problem of electoral politics being a game between factions pre-approved by the bourgeoisie won’t change, there are even safeguards preventing unwanted change that losing parties and government branches can pull in the rare event a worker party won.
It’s the perfect carrot, it won’t get passed nor would it change much.
Even though RCV improves representation by only like 3%-6%. it’s still an improvement.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RepresentWomen#Ranked_Choice_Voting
Sure, I won’t make the claim that it’s a bad thing over FPTP. My argument is that focusing on Electoral Reform is wasted energy when it is ultimately easier to get compehensive change through via Revolution, and I’d argue Revolution is still required regardless.
They won’t allow it because they’ll lose power with ranked choice.
It doesn’t. There are plenty of bourgeois democracies that don’t use FPTP for all their voting: Japan, Australia, South Korea for some of their elections. Doesn’t make a difference (expect it might make the bribery a bit more expensive, since you have to buy off more political parties than just two).
The fundamental problem is capital standing above political power. If it does so, then no amount of alternative voting systems can fix the issue.
You have a few options for enacting ranked choice voting at the national level:
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Win hundreds, possibly thousands, of state-level House and Senate seats with the largest grass roots voter mobilization ever seen in the US to, a) enact legislation in all 50 states or b) ratify an amendment to the constitution, that mandates it.
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Kill enough republicans in a national civil war to make sure that when elections happen, there aren’t enough republicans left to win an election, then enact the above.
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Overthrow the entire US government in a much bloodier national coup and set up whatever government you want.
Kill enough republicans in a national civil war
And democrats, too. Don’t pretend they’re not just as responsible for keeping fptp voting, their party depends on it. If you don’t believe me, look into how coordinated the GOP and Democrats were when suing PSL and the Green party to keep them off several state ballots. Spoiler: there was no overlap.
It’s one party, two wings.
It isn’t, but I suppose if you hang out in an echo chamber long enough you’ll believe anything.
What echo chamber are you talking about? Existing on the English-speaking internet at all is to be in a pro-US echo chamber, Leftists carving out little enclaves for themselves to discuss topics with other leftists doesn’t insulate them from the overwhelming majority of their existence.
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Even if it would, how would it ever get passed when the people who would need to pass it are the ones who are only in office because the system works the way it currently does?
This is just a recurring theme I’ve found when talking with liberals. They like to think about and suggest all sorts of policy ideas as though all we’re missing are some smart ideas nobody has thought of. It’s one thing to say we should have this, but it’s another to have any idea of how it’d be possible to do. Since they have no actual analysis of the system, they’ll just turn around and tell you to vote or call your representative. “We should get money out of politics!” “Yeah, well we checked with the people giving us money and they said no. So…”
Imma be real as an European, we kinda have the same problem here even with better voting systems. You either vote for “nothing ever happens” parties or literal Russia funded reactionary nazis.
I do advocate for it, I’m a proud member of the Forward Party.
Yeah, the two are totally the same. Thats why the Trump Admin is completely dismantling the state, destroying their network of allies and causing a mass famine via ceasing aid shipments while the dems… didnt do that.
Fuck your FPTP system btw, but comparing the two after the last 2 months just seems moronic.
Oh, and maybe, more of you should have voted.
weakening the US state is a good thing in my book. The less organized the imperial core is the more breathing room there is for the rest of the world.
it’s not weakening; it’s reshuffling resources to prioritize china.
I think it’s definitely weakening.
The dismatling of organisations like USAID Is a representation of the move away from “soft power” liberalized imperialism to more aggressive outright imperialism.
Aggressive imperialism i much easier to spot and much harder to defend, both within the imperial countries and within the exploited countries.
It’s not like America was just “too nice” to do the imperialism outright before, it’s that after decades of direct imperialism it realized that it was much easier to do it less-directly so that was the better focus.
It does weakening it temporarily, institutions take time to get properly organized and function efficiently. Think of USAID, while not perfectly efficient it already functioned like an oiled machine, dismantling it to set up a new one will require more work to get it started than just keeping USAID going, with the added risk that the newer thing is not guaranteed to succeed.
agreed and what’s happening to usaid is fascinating; its resources are being reshuffled to cointelpro-ing american citizens … again
Dishonest to say only the things Trump has done but not look at the situation equally. Why not mentioned Biden’s reversal of Trump’s plan to withdraw US troops from Somalia?
Secondly, when was the first time you had heard of USAID? I find all these people love to say how many “lives it saves” while they also had only learned about it very recently. USAID was a tool of US neocolonialism designed to prevent countries in the global south from gaining sovereignty.
They are both the same and the last two months has only further confirmed that.
Im not sure if you actually looked at the words on the meme or not, but it doesn’t say they’re “exactly the same” it says they’re less evil. Democrats teamed up with war criminal Dick Cheney for fucks sake, it’s like they are actively trying to make people not vote for them.
If someone I don’t like or interact with says they support me, that is not me “teaming up” with them.
They actively flaunted his endorsement, and brought his daughter on stage. Cheney is a man at least as evil as Putin, and if Putin was American, the Democrats would have brought him on stage too.
hey only 86 million people didn’t vote
The democrats (just like US republicans) are a party of genocide:
Seems OG Lemmy hardcore dems have been overrun by critically thinking individuals.
The OG lemmings are Marxist-Leninists. The surge of centrist Dems came from the Reddit exodus.
If the vast majority of Americans believed the Democrats to be less evil, the Democrats would have 90% of the vote. If that were the case, the Republicans would move ever further left, perhaps even overtaking the Democrats, until they get a chance at winning again.
The reason the parties are right wing is because the voters are right wing.
That’s why we need a communist revolution where everyone will be a happy little comrade
The reason that people don’t vote Democrats is the same reason that people won’t join your revolution.
If you found enough people to support a revolution, that’d mean you have enough people to change the system by simple voting.
So close…
We will crush the evil empire from the outside
That’s not actually how electoral politics works. The two major parties are right wing because that’s what the bourgeoisie allows the US to pick from, not because those policies are genuinely popular. Bernie, for example, had policies more supported by both republican and democrat voters than either other candidate. Policies like Medicare for All are overwhelmingly popular.
Revolution isn’t won at the ballot box because the electoral system is designed from the outset to only allow pre-approved candidates and parties. Revolution comes from organizing, hence why in areas with stronger union presence government policy is usually more pro-worker, they must capitulate.
Revolution, ie the overthrow of the state, has happened many times before throughout the world and will happen many times more as long as it remains the only actual vector for change.
If left wing policies were truly more popular, why didn’t the Democrats win? The voters didn’t get Bernie, so if you can’t get your ideal option, you instead take the worse of the two remaining ones? Even if voters were only voting for damage reduction, they’d still vote Democrat in that case.
But the Democrats didn’t win. The voters don’t want damage reduction. The voters want damage.
Multiple reasons.
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Many people are dissillusioned by the non-impactful electoral system and thus don’t vote
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Democrats didn’t front anything remotely resembling left policies, but instead committed to being “adult” caretakers of Imperialism instead of nakedly like the Republicans promised
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Genocide became a source of alienation when it was out in the open, rather than kept hush-hush
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The American Proletariat is, ultimately, reactionary, due to being beneficiaries of Imperialism
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The reason the parties are right wing is because the voters are right wing.
You’re completely right, the working class of the imperial core is reactionary by definition, always been and always will be.
Hopefully the Empire will whither and die, and a newly revolutionary working class can arise and organize from its ashes.
I have a problem with that phrasing. The empire will not die by itself, it has to be killed.
I can’t think of any empire or state, no matter how frail, that just collapsed under its own weight.
I think it’s both. Empire weakens its foundations, then the weakest links in the chain break off, heightening contradictions at play. Empire has to be killed, but this process begins because of Imperialism itself. No matter who pulls the trigger, the US will only have itself to blame for its own downfall.
I could very well be wrong, I’m still a baby ML and am starting to read Hudson’s Super-Imperialism to see how the US empire functions in the modern day, it isn’t the same as Imperialism in Lenin’s time, but I believe Lenin to be correct still in that Imperialism begets its own demise through inciting others against it.
The death of an empire is the qualitative development after a huge sum of quantitative changes, but you still need something to trigger the qualitative change, it won’t happen by itself.
Think of Syria, the fall of Assad happened due to the collective sum of erosion of the economy, the army, the people, etc, but still it was ultimately triggered by the terrorist HTS attack. If that event didn’t happen, Assad would still be in Syria.
People need to organize to kill the empire, not pray for it to fall under its own weight.
100% agreed, I understand what you mean and why you took issue with my framing. The shift from quantitative build-up to qualitative collapse of the US Empire still requires the jump from quantitative to qualitative itself, I agree. If I didn’t, I don’t think I could still be considered a Marxist, haha. Thanks!
The system will never give us the tools needed to dismantle it my dude
I don’t like this meme
Wow
I think this meme might spur people to be less likely to vote democrat. If the midterms still exist in a year, I want the Democrats to win them so Trump can’t keep destroying America so quickly.
What problem do you have with the evil empire being destroyed?
They’re destroying the parts that keep good people alive first and profiting off the destruction.
USAID was a part that murders and enslaves good people
Destroying America? Sounds good to me, if you want people to vote Democrat, don’t share that they will “stop” something great from happening
The Democrats aren’t resisting Trump now, why would they after winning the midterms? Both parties are on the same team and neither represent the people.
Oh great, Cowbee the Trump supporter is here. I don’t want to argue with you.
What do you mean Trump supporter? Do you think every Leftist is a secret Republican for being critical of the DNC as well as GOP?
I said I don’t want to argue with you. Quit trying to sealion me into an argument.
I opened the convo with a reasonable question, then you pivoted to slandering me as a Trump supporter with no backing, and now are accusing me of sealioning. Forgive me for calling your behavior out. Don’t respond if you don’t want to, but don’t complain when people call you out either.
Fucking two months in is too close to the election to criticize Democrats…
Liberals really are a parody of themselves
It literally says that it’s important to vote…
Well I think people are bad at reading.
vote libertarian!
If you read the project 2025 document you’ll see a section on the federal reserve, we seem to already be on the way there with Trump surprisingly. Which the document suggests capital punishment and a border wall, its not a document by the Fraser institute its a document crafted by Trump, you’re an fool if you cant see that.
https://static.project2025.org/2025_MandateForLeadership_FULL.pdf
Without inflation, when you require raising taxes to actually pay for things, you’ll see how much people are willing to spend for their DEI institutes and doing plays for other countries to cringe at.
