This but unironically
The toasty warm planet thanks your contributions. Especially those dying from extreme weather events!
My apologies. Didn’t realize my dietary habits were responsible for the state of the US electrical grid.
No, but its responsible for ~40% of the entire world’s global greenhouse gas emissions. If you’re at all left wing, you should put your money where your mouth is and commit to a diet that aligns with literally all of your beliefs.
But hey I’m just Three Ducks, relatively removed from the risk of meat eaters, in the US at least 🦆
all of agriculture is only responsible for about 20% of global emissions. your numbers are wrong
Prove it.
I’ve been vegetarian for about 3 years (working towards vegan) because I want to decrease my carbon footprint, but yeah. Meat is delicious.
If you can find TVP in the shops, in a steak shape, that stuff is ridiculous. You just cook them in a vegetable broth, press out the water and then sear them like a steak in a pan. The Maillard reaction turns the protein into that typical seared meat taste and it’s similarly chewy, too.
Granted I have been vegetarian for a bit too long to really judge it, but I did also immediately gag on my first bite, because my body was convinced I was biting into meat.
99% of humans have the complete opposite reaction when the animal in question is a mosquito.
I mainly kill animals to enjoy the silence that comes after.
Damn mosquitoes sound annoying AF!
Also they’re so damn noisy. You’d think their parents could shut them up, but human babies just like to scream.
You’re going to steal my blood and annoy me while doing so?
the least you could do is stfu and be grateful but no you have to fucking play vuvuzela LITERALLY IN MY EAR
And yet, when it’s people, there’s a problem. Such a double standard 🙄
Hey, speak for yourself! Some of us take communion…
Hey all you modern-day meat eaters out there, raise your hand if you’ve ever actually killed an animal.
No one?
That’s what I thought.
🙋
Duck, rabbit, fish. It’s not uncommon for people to hunt and fish.
🙋♂️
Down here it’s a pretty common hobby. I just got a new .308 last year for this explicit purpose.
The replies to this are chefs kiss
Everyone talks about the annoying vegan, but look at all of the rage-induced replies from the meat eaters.
I counted maybe a dozen strawmen? People really are resistant to any kind of change, even the thought of it.
It’s an interesting choice to accuse people in general of never having gone fishing before.
If you thought they were saying noone has ever killed their own meat, you are missing the point.
They should formulate their point better so you don’t look silly when you leap to their defense.
If you think I look silly, sure. All I’m saying is all of the meat advocates that jumped to attack the OP are missing the point.
Now, why would you all misconstrue what they said so bad? Are you all seriously arguing that even close to a substantial percent of people hunt for their own food?
Maybe, just MAYBE, they weren’t talking about all of you who actually have, and instead were making a point about how the vast majority of people in at least the US have not and will not hunt their own food in their lifetime. The number drops if we only consider those who actually provide for themselves with hunting rather than treat it as a sport with meat as a bonus.
No you are right, they must have literally meant that noone has ever hunted ever. That makes much more sense. Definitely doesnt say anything about your reading comprehension.
I get it, they are coming for your meat, probably your guns too. Life’s rough. Keep up the good fight.
🙋♂️
Parents owned a hog and chicken farm. Pro tip: never eat a rooster. Awful meat.
I have eaten rooster before, its more a gamey like taste or more intense compared to chicken
Maybe the one I had was just bad or something. I didn’t enjoy it.
I mean homesteading is pretty popular
🙋
I went crabbing and the resources I found said that killing them before cooking them was likely more humane than boiling them alive, so that’s what I did.
My old neighbor’s cat once left a paralyzed/twitching rat outside my door, which I found in the morning. I quickly realized that the rat was not going to recover (it had already been there for hours), so I had to figure out a way to quickly end its suffering. I did not eat the rat though.
I have butchered squirrels, deer, turkey, snakes, catfish, goats, pigs, and rabbits. Went vegetarian two years ago for ethical reasons though, so I guess I don’t get to raise my hand lol
Took a chance on the lemmy demographic and lost. There’s actually a pretty diverse group here I’m finding.
I have been fishing before with friends and watched a meat animal get decapitated on a relatives farm out of curiosity
Also watched a mongoose get drowned as part of pest control on the same relatives farm because they eat chickens
Never felt bad about it and enjoyed learning about It
Oh and I’ve massacred countless amounts of mosquitos but I don’t eat them
Do you use a phone? Well, you cant use one unless you build it yourself…
I’ve killed deer, chickens, chipmunks, squirrel, and some other small pests. Yes, I did gut and clean the deer and chickens myself. And yes, I did eat their tasty fleshy meat.
Lol, are you trying to say something?
How many beans have you harvested? How many bushels of wheat have you grown? None, damn I guess that means we all have to starve to death.
🙋♂️ Am I still allowed to eat it?
Fuck yeah brother, every invasive carp I can remove from my local river and stream ecosystem is a big WIN for everybody around me.
I cut their throats and leave them in the reeds for scavengers to feed on.
I do this with a big fuckin’ smile too, knowing my local DNR fines ignorant folks who release invasive species into my waterways.
Edit: am strictly catch-and-release when not reeling in invasive cunts. I don’t even used barbed hooks because I’m not a dick bag.
Such a strange combination of sport and killing. Which part do you like best?
🙋 I’ve hunted deer, gutted and skinned them myself too. The tenderloins are great sauteed, and the rest of the meat is good ground (just don’t cook it as long as hamburger, it’s more lean).
If you haven’t realized yet, vegans dont care about hunters.
Factory farms are hard to make an argument for though.
I’ll give it a shot anyways, to play devil’s advocate.
I only buy a vanishingly small percentage of the amount of meat produced by factory farms every year. So I feel the same percentage responsible for perpetuating that system, which isn’t nearly enough to keep me up at night.
Just here to remember everyone that insects are indeed part of the animal Kingdom.
Even if you added “for it’s meat” at the end there, I have killed and eaten fish.
But the way you said it, who hasn’t swatted a fly or mosquito? Not to mention the skin mites and fruit flies you consume daily.
I went hunting but I got bored.
Thrill of the hunt, my ass! I fell asleep on a log.
No one has every hunted. I mean, I have, but no, no one.
For real, dead animals taste amazing when you grill them
You should try dog if you get the chance, Elwood dog farm has a low impact factory farm where you can buy Labrador cuts and some gamier breeds if they’re in stock.
i know u are saying that because u think that would be bad but there is literally nothing wrong with eating dogs, also cats are good too.
Great, so we agree no animals are ethically off limits to kill and consume. How about… Some of the more simple minded human populace? Like, if through IQ testing we find the bottom 5% of humans, and (without eating brain and spine, avoiding prion diseases) feed them to the masses? They’re probably not terribly much smarter than dogs, and they could help curb food shortages. Or are humans off limits?
Thats a fine slippery slope argument u got there and like always its complete shit, people are people and animals are animals.
I’m not suggesting that animal eating leads to cannibalism, which WOULD be a slippery slope.
I’m suggesting that if meat eaters are okay with killing and eating animals, why not the human animal? I probe because the line drawn in the sand is unclear with meat eaters.
Also, humans are animals. This is primary school stuff here.
What separates eating animals from eating people for you?
The fact that you are eating your own species, which is cannibalism.
Right, but what’s inherently wrong with eating your own species? I mean, I know, I think any sentient life shouldn’t be killed for my pleasure. But with your logic that some species are okay to kill and eat, and others aren’t, I’m wanting to know why those others aren’t.
Ignoring “societal norms”, as they’ve been used to commit genocide, slavery, and all manner of atrocities - why is cannibalism logically, in your opinion, bad?
there are genuine health issues with cannibalism unlike dogs and cats, bet we taste good too given the right seasonings tho
Only if you eat the brain or spinal column, which I was careful to add. Otherwise the risks are as manageable as with cow meat, i.e., parasites and bacteria. Given that you’re okay with eating cats and dogs, and now simple-minded humans, what’s to stop me from killing and eating you? I mean, all anyone needs to assert is that they’re mentally superior to their food, what’s off the table for you?
I’m sure mass scale cannibalism might actually be as good for the environment as a plant based diet. Maybe you’re on to something. We’d be so morally consistent!
go ahead a good third of my country thinks i shouldn’t exist anyway and im sick of fighting it, im sure i taste good too
you keep trying to push people into corners about this when most ppl who eat meat do it simply because it tastes good, has good nutritional value, and is easily accessible. for my two cents in w serious manor, the meat industry is fucked up and should be regulated, since you didn’t take my initial comment as the shitpost it is
there are moral concerns but for most people (majority will never even know what lemmy is) simply don’t care and will never care, because meat tastes good
Pushing people into corners is what good debate is about. If people find their refutations are weak enough to have them back into a corner, then they should abandon that argument.
I grew up on a farm in the south of New Zealand. My brothers were dairy farmers, my front yard was cattle, I was a staunch anti-vegan who swore he’d never eat vegetarian as long as he lived.
I will never care because meat tastes good. Except now I do.
There is no level of regulation that permits - in good moral conscience - the subjugation and slaughter of animals for our pleasure.
Meat is only easily accessible because it is heavily subsidized by the government. A vegan diet is nearly always cheaper - consider that most developing nations eat vegan/vegetarian because of this.
There’s a short book I read that absolutely convinced me of veganism called “This is Vegan Propaganda and Other Lies The Meat Industry Tells You”. I’ve had 5 people read it, and ALL FIVE have gone vegan. It’s straight up insane how brutal a grip the meat industry has on people, through lobbying, ad campaigns, purposeful obfuscation of the industry. Bananas!
No, humans taste nasty all joking aside. Also prions. Don’t eat your own kind, there are reasons for this.
That’s why I said “avoiding the brain and spine, to avoid prion diseases”. You might have misread my comment.
do you trust the processing facilities for the underground dogmeat industry to even come close to choosing safety over profit in shaving that meat down as close to cartilage as possible?
Oh we’re talking about eating humans now, we’re well past dogs as it seems like a fair few people here would be okay with factory farming them.
Personally, my ethics are simple and easily define - if it displays sentience, I won’t eat it. It’s unethical to kill and eat something that feels pain. I’m more interested in your more nebulous ethics, where some species are okay to eat, some not
It sounds like you’re okay with eating dogs, which id argue is demonstrably disgusting, but in your opinion, is it okay to rear, kill and then eat humans?
I will eat your babies!
then u will starve
My concern with eating dogs and cats (which I have) is how they were fed. There isn’t a lot of health safety concern with those kinds of underground meat sources can sometimes feed dead livestock back to the populace and that can cause all numbers of prion and parasitic concerns.
TBH, I’d expect them to be a bit gamey, especially cats.
That does sound intriguing. How does it taste?
Gamey unless reared correctly. Better to eat pet dogs as the meat generally tastes juicier. It can sometimes be unpleasant bolting them before slitting their throats after they’ve lived inside for so long, but knowing they lived a happy life free of predators, and didn’t die of old age (try to kill before they become yearlings) makes it feel right.
I’m fine with gamey meat, lots of hunters in the family. Sounds interesting, I might try it sometime.
Try Harder.
What? Try harder to what? Don’t defend yourself in court hahahaha. “Does the defense have any closing statements?” “Uh yes your honour. Ahem. leans into mic t-try harder”
I mean I could but I have a nearly limitless supply of rabbits in my yard. Their fur makes great gifts. My plants love the compost I get from everything else. As a bonus the blood compost deters rabbits from eating my cabbage.
Funny thing, I can’t seem to find any type of vegan certification that is concerned with the use of animal byproducts or waste in fertilizer. A few specifically say they do not check fertilizer.
Don’t let perfection be the enemy of good. If everyone stopped eating animals, there’d be no surplus of blood and bone for fertilisers, and other plant based by-products would fill the space.
As for the rabbits, I actually have a small Australian shepherd that runs through my lawn chasing the wallabies that meander by, I’ve been meaning to trap it and humanely slaughter it, the blue coat would make a great gift! And if the owner comes by looking for Bella, I could trap him and humanely slaughter him too. He looks a bit simple, so it seems ethical to me? He’d make good compost, that’s for true.
Actually a lot of organic farms rely of blood and bone meal, manure and fish emulsion fertilizers. They’re inexpensive as they’re byproducts of other industries and are very good for plants.
When I worked in an organic greenhouse I often wondered about how vegans would feel about farmers using animal based fertilizers. We definitely told people what we used, as we sold those products, but no one ever said anything about it. I guess vegans can’t control that so maybe it’s a nonissue unless they grow their own food and use seaweed based fertilizer(more expensive) instead?If you’ve got the luxury, you can also let fields go fallow and rotate crops to avoid fertilizer. That obviously requires more land though
This thread is weird. It seems like you all never heard of compost.
Does that work long term on a commercial scale without egg shells/ bone meal? Afaik, there needs to be an additional source of calcium, but that could of course also supplement crop rotation/fallowing.
Though tbf, limestone is very soft and I could see supplementing with ground limestone.
Knock it off with the trolling nonsense
It’s pretty obvious you’re a troll
We are well aware of the dog meat troll tactic from vеgаns
Hypothetical moral questions posed genuinely is not trolling. If you’re okay with eating cows and pigs, why is eating dogs considered trolling?
it’s bad faith
I have no intent to deceive. There’s a moral inconsistency amongst meat eaters. Pigs are okay, dogs are not. Why? “Oh, because we like dogs” Does that mean I can eat any sentient thing I dislike? “Well, no, dogs are intelligent!” Pigs are smarter than most breeds of dog, and have equal capabilities for emotion.
There is no logical argument against veganism in western society. Literally none. Meat eaters collectively breed and kill literally billions of animals per year, destroying the planet, because it’s yummy. Meat eaters have essentially caused swine flu, bird flu, ebola, corona virus, just for the taste of meat. Meat eaters are causing treatment resistant bacteria by abusing antibiotics on high intensity farming, all for meat. That’s crazy.
it’s clearly a gotcha. that’s bad faith.
No it’s not. It being a “gotcha” does not mean it’s wrong. In fact, it is still right, you’re just wrong and think the person you reply to is wrong because they disagree with you.
there is no logical argument for a lot of things, its just culture. and it is tasty and thats all that need be said.
There’s a lot of awful things in culture. It was culturally acceptable to slap a women on the bottom for a good job.
Your argument is “ah well”.
That’s not a reasonable defense for your objectively immoral actions. You are causing the suffering of sentient life for taste, that makes you immoral. Not to mention the horrible effect your diet has on the planet.
Listen brother, I eat meat but if you go into a vegan post and get into an argument about veganism, you’re not being trolled, you’re the troll.
It doesn’t help that the vegans are right. The meat industry is a nightmare, terrible for the environment, and pretty bad for our health.
It’s insane that most Americans eat meat every day.
If I could put 100% tax on meat tomorrow I would, but that’s political suicide, so it’ll never happen. It’d be easier to adjust than you think. There are plenty of delicious vegetarian options, and it’d be a lot easier to choose those if they were more common.
I eat meat because it’s culturally acceptable, delicious, ubiquitous, and I don’t believe I can make a noticeable difference. But that doesn’t mean I think it’s right.
I don’t believe I can make a noticeable difference.
Not eating meat won’t change the systemic problems but it will mean fewer animals will be subject to the industry. Over the course of a lifetime, the number of animals you can save adds up.
Also it’s a good habit to transfer thoughts and beliefs into actions.
Not eating meat won’t change the systemic problems but it will mean fewer animals will be subject to the industry.
more animals are breed and slaughtered every year than the year before. being vegan has never reduced that
Yeah no shit, but the number would be even higher if fewer people were vegan.
What bizarre logic, what thorough lack of object permanence.
Just because meat eating outpaces veganism doesn’t mean vegans haven’t reduced the consumption of meat?
I don’t even think you know what you’re saying now. If the whole world went vegan today, there’d be no meat animal slaughter. YOU are the cause of this problem.
“Oh world hunger is getting worse, I better stop my charity donations!”
“Oh greenhouse gas emissions are on the rise, might as well go back to oil and gas!”
Like, you realise how foolish that argument is, right?
For a split second that website looked convincing 🙂
Would try if it was real.You can try some in Switzerland. While you can’t sell the meat, slaughtering and eating it is legal. There is farms where you can “make a donation” and they’ll invite you to dinner.
I agree! There’s actually a few human races I consider acceptable to eat, what a breath of fresh air to find someone like minded!
a few races of human
Ew, are you like a racist or something ?
I suppose when you presuppose superiority over sentient life for no other reason than your own pleasure, it’s quite easy to become racist.
You’re dawn right “ew”!
I mean, people hardly ever eat carnivores. Even pigs, which are omnivores, are 90% of the time herbivores. I don’t even eat meat, but this argument never made sense to me. Yes, there are countries where people eat dogs, but that doesn’t mean dogs and cats are equivalent to cattle. You can make an argument for horses though.
The argument works for a Western audience that are okay with killing and eat some animals, but find it abhorrent to eat others. Most people don’t like the idea of dogs in pain, and if we did rear dogs like we do pigs, there would be huge public outcry.
And sure, you get Redditors and Lemmy-ites who go “Oh ho i’d eat dog!”, but they mean they’d try the meat once at a market, to maintain moral consistency. The truth is they’d be just as horrified if they saw dogs yelping in factory farmed cages, like we treat chickens.
But there’s no reason to treat some animals one way, some another. They all feel pain, they all feel misery, they all call for their children once they’ve been culled. It’s objectively immoral to eat meat when not for necessity.
How do you measure how much misery a cod feels?
Edit: sorry that was a bit snarky. I don’t think you’re completely off the mark but I would think an animal needs at least a nervous system to experience pain, so there are categories to consider and it may be morally virtuous to abstain from eating some animals but not necessarily immoral, and we should be careful to anthropomorphize other animal emotional states.
So fish have nociceptors, and a brain that connects to them, and they avoid painful stimuli. They have analgesic response systems in their brain to dull painful stimuli. Even the most cautious interpetation of misery would include pain, so I would not kill and eat it. Fish display sentience, therefore it is immoral to kill them for pleasure.
Plants process pain and can communicate with other plants.
By your logic it is immoral to mow your grass.
No serious study suggests plants feel pain. They do not have a brain or central nervous system. At most, they respond to stimuli.
Many more plants “die” for animal feeding than with a vegan diet.
If you’re worried about grass pain, you should focus more on the animals that DO have nociceptors, central nervous systems and brains, and the ability to feel fear that you subject them too, purely for taste preference.
Horse meat does taste pretty good
If prepped properly, still needs a milk soak.
Elwood dog farm
Ok now I’m angry it was a joke. Do you have any idea how hard it is to find organic free range husky?!
Upvoting, because while I don’t eat meat myself, I like people who are consistent.
If you’re okay with eating a pig, don’t judge those you eat a dog.
Same for dead plants and mushrooms tho.
porque no los dos
?
Real
Agreed
Pork has no fucking business being that damn tasty.
Its like its begging to be cooked.
There sure is a lot of vegan propaganda on Lemmy. It’s very annoying and not particularly memey.
Fastest way to get anyone offended is to even remotely imply they could change the way they eat… Jesus y’all are vitriolic WTF?
*please talk to a dietitian or your doctor, if possible, before drastically changing your diet
I’ve already had to drop dairy out of my diet, so I figure that going vegan isn’t necessarily that much of a stretch anymore. It’s not because of moral or ethical reasons, though: it’s entirely because handling raw meat squicks me out. I currently have to keep up the charade because my family are kind of dicks about it…it sucks.
mmmm animal flesh inbetween my teeth. Fking amazing.
But not swine. Fk swine.
The self-reference in this was expected but somehow also the perfect cherry on top
Good call! :)
not like us
I will literally dissolve down to a skeleton and die if I don’t see hear or smell animals having a bad time.
That’s why it’s so important.
/s get fucked.
yeah, yummy meat. I like it a lot. Sometimes i salt it than dry it myself, and god, does it taste delicious. I might be bothered by the cruelty of all this meat industry, but guess what, if i were to choose, i’d rather be a farm pig. Anything actually that does not comprehend the cruelty of this reality, and i’m not talking about farms here. Also, unlike most of us they go away quickly.
P.S. fyi, latest studies show that plants might also feel the pain. Sorry to disappoint you guys, but it seems like we are just doomed to bring more suffering in this world. You better find a way to cope with this before it became more researched.
