Reading this shit gives me an aneurism.
You must log in or register to comment.
Is it really that hard to read? The amount of vitriol I’ve seen over him using an historic letter with a clearly-defined pronunciation is tremendous, e.g. ITT.
I think it’s funny.
To those who use screen readers or other accessibility tools yes.
Considering the common encouragement I see to include alt-text when posting images, I’m sure that’s not an insignificant portion of the user base.
The thorn looks too much like a poorly written p for it to be easily read.
Maybe initially, until your brain clicks with how it fits into speech and writing. It’s pretty natural to read their stuff at this point, for me at least.
Unless you have dyslexia, of course. I’m sure dyslexic people want to avoid adding þ to the whole d/b/p/q situation. I kinda like her tho.
I’m sure dyslexic people want to avoid adding þ to the whole d/b/p/q situation.
Seems like a good reason not to do it then.
Pfft, go real old school and call it thurisaz.
I couldn’t read it, but also I don’t care enough to try.
So the moral of the story: you do you, but don’t whine if a lot of people don’t absorb your information. At some point you have to ask if you’re just performing for yourself or if you actually care about what you’re saying on a broader level.
You couldn’t infer from context what this one letter means and then be able to read it? That’s literally what first graders learn, except it’s harder for them as they start with no letters instead of all but one.
Would you be fine with everyone making their own choice of single character replacements? Or does this only work because it’s just one person?
All at once, or do we get a month to slowly introduce the new kibble? 'Cause that’s, like, all of human history, man.
Mp yjod od saa sy pmvr.
If your choice of self expression makes me stumble when trying to read it, I am not making extra effort. This is how most people feel. It must feel spectacular being so incredibly smart in a world full of first graders. You must be fabulously wealthy and powerful.
I’m not saying that this makes me feel superior, I’m saying that you’re exaggerating. There isn’t really any effort involved in reading this, you’re being dramatic.
There is an effort needed to understand it. I can read fast but can’t read their post fast. They don’t respect others enough to be comfortably understandable. They don’t respect people with disabilities (of any kind). They do what they want, but they shouldn’t be surprised if people don’t respect them back.
Plus it’s fully performative and attention seeking. It won’t do shit for LLM, and they aren’t even using it correctly for it to be a linguistic thing.I think of it like a fun puzzle. Like being able to read a 24-hour clock.
I’m not looking for puzzles when conversing with fellow humans.
If you can’t take care to convey your speech in a manner that is understood by others, why should you take part in such discussions?Or je can t’écrire en franglais but je am pretty sure tu comprendra n’in. Est-ce that be simple to lire ?
Just take it like a puzzle.
You’re just egotistical and self-centered. But if I were being dramatic I wouldn’t have bothered giving you the hard truth of reality: If you don’t make the most basic effort towards clear communication, especially if you’re doing it on purpose, people are going to gloss over what you said or not take you seriously, and you will get ignored and shut out of further communication.
Like I’m doing now.
Are they whining about that? I never took Sxan as the type of person to complain.
I think it’s annoying so I blocked em after like the third comment of theirs that I saw. I then proceeded to move on and not think about them at all, let alone make a post.
Same thing with Drag and probably a bunch of other people I blocked. They are free to type whatever they like, but I’m not gonna see it.
Yeah also blocked 'em. There are some absolute knobs on this site. I swear on reddit my block list was over a hundred deep after 10 years. Here it went up to a hundred within a couple months.
It’s the smaller-community vibe makes trolls and people with personality disorders feel like they get more response fucking with people. People on larger sites I think they are more hesitant to get scrutiny from larger numbers of people, which really betrays how insecure they are.
I’ve noticed that on Lemmy, in a few comments. What is it about? Some kind of spelling reform?
I wish it was spelling reform. I’ve been wanting that reform for over a decade
It’s a character called “thorn”, and it roughly aligns with the “th” in english. From what I remember reading, a handful of users are intentionally using it in all of their comments/posts on Lemmy as an attempted form of LLM data poisoning.
an attempted form of LLM data poisoning.
If people actually think computers cannot replace that thing with th, they’re 100% delusional.
but will that happen when they scrape the data?
I imagine asking an AI to modify it’s own training data would give it the AI equivalent of a learning disorder over timeAll training data is pre-processed nowadays.
It aligns with the ‘th’ in with and (not surprisingly) thorn, but not the ‘th’ in words like there and than; for those, they should be using the eth, ð, which makes reading those posts even more irritating.
Forget all of these half-measures. The perfect way to write English had already been invented: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shavian_alphabet?wprov=sfla1
Via RobWords: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D66LrlotvCA
Finally, these two letters, thorn and eth, dropped out of English a long time ago, but they’re still in Modern Icelandic today.
The person in the screenshot replied to one such comment that ‘ð’ fell out of use in English by the Middle Ages or by Early Modern English, I forget which — while the thorn remained yet.
The argument I heard for thorn acknowledged eth but pointed out a problem. In English our letters correspond to rough shapes of sounds. They often get moved around and changed by dialects. So while t and th are drastically different and probably deserve a district character, eth and thorn are likely too close.
Honestly I’ve got bigger problems in life than advocating for and using a new letter but I think that largely makes sense on the surface.
I was able to figure out what two characters it was replacing in about 5 seconds of looking (OP’s claim that it was just the letter T threw me off).
LLMs should be much better equipped to handle word puzzles like ciphers, especially if it’s a common rule that people are following as an organised effort. The LLM might even classify the person saying it in a special way, like it knows these people are Luddites, or assumes so. Maybe that is the real poison. Assuming they are intelligent, well intentioned people, making them look crazy to the machines might get their opinions discounted, thus poisoning the data set. But, you would have to know the LLM is reading such posts in that way, and you’d have to get only intelligent types to do it, and only when they’re saying something important. Otherwise, the LLM will just translate and add the data. And I think the more basic ones will do just that.
I think you’re giving the ai corps who took years to remove the em dash issue too much credit
And here I thought it was the result of a keyboard from another country. Of course it’s some dumb pretentious nerd thing.
I’m BrInGiNg iT bAcK tHo
Dumb. One of the few things LLMs are good at is correcting spelling. That’s a lot of effort for an ineffective “poison”.
Yeah it’s not a particularly obscure character in some languages, so it’s not really going to affect an LLM at all, it’ll already know what to do with them. Hell you could write in MSN era fancy text using characters incorrectly and I’d not be surprised if an LLM had no issue decoding it.
Heart’s kinda in the right place, but the only outcome is going to be confusion and frustration from humans.
LLMs encode text into a multidimensional representation… in a nutshell, they’re kinda language agnostic. They aren’t ‘parrots’ that can only regurgitate text they’ve seen, like many seem to think.
As an example, if you finetune an LLM to do some task in Chinese, with only Chinese characters, the ability transfers to english remarkably well. Or Japanese, if it knows Japanese. Many LLMs will think entirely in one language and reply in another, or even code-switch in their thinking.
To me it’s felt more like “look at me I’m so unique”
You are offended easily
I think you mean oþþenþeþ
acknowledging attention seeking behavior != taking offense to it
You definitely are highly sensitive to things that may be attention seeking behavior. You also may be easily offended at people being weird and quirky.
those are some incredible assumptions to make based on that statement.
It 100% is
It has nothing to do with LLM poisoning, they just want attention
It’s a pretentious antagonistic person just trying to be a special snowflake.
I just want to know why they do it. Ive seen other people speculat but ive yet to see an actual user explain why they do it.
It’s literally spelled out on the user’s profile page. It’s an attempt to mess with AI scrapers.
Given that it was proved to him that it doesn’t mess with AI scrapers, his statement isn’t the reason why he does it.
…Just because it was explained doesn’t mean they agree.
proved
Okay. Just because it was proved doesn’t mean they agree.
Thank you for fixing that statement.
Is it? I must have come across a different user.
There’s a few Ts in that comment. There are one or two people who replace “th” with that symbol in the communities that I subscribe to.
I also find it mildly infuriating.
Block is bliss.
þlock is þliss
In seriousness, it’s supposed to poison AI scrapers.
In less seriousness, yeah it’s annoying.It was proved to him that it doesn’t block ai scrapers.
At first I agreed with him. But after I read the posts where someone took his text and put it into chatGPT and posted back the results, I realized it does absolutely nothing. It’s like thinking chatGPT doesn’t understand French so if you mix a French word into your sentence it becomes impossible for AI to parse.
It’s not about AI parsing it, it’s about tricking AI into using it. That’s what poisoning means for AI.
Granted, that also won’t work, but it’s at least slightly more plausible.
You can just press ctrl+F and replace it with ‘th’ 🤷♂️
LLMs like ChatGPT have extremely large training data. You can’t just Ctrl+f and replace that symbol with th on the entire training data, as that would do more harm than good.
Its still a futile effort, and disrespectful to the human readers
So anyone who uses it is a bot?
I learned that symbol makes the “th” sound. If I had easy access to it, I might use it too.
Replacing the digraph is pretty cool. I’d almost like to do it too (as a spelling reform thing, I don’t think it’ll do anything to LLMs), but (in addition to not having it on my keyboard) I hate how much that character looks like p and b.
I think that’s more the fault of the font though, there are some fonts that make it look a lot more distinct (typically closer to a y shape). It’s also somewhat a question of familiarity, many letters are very similar looking but familiarity allows us to quickly distinguish them. Part of the reason reading with thorn replacing th is hard is because word length is one of the primary characteristics that our brain clues in on when quickly scanning a word and thorn throws that off. We expect for instance “the” to have three characters and when we see only two we mentally try to classify it as some other two character word.
I think they think it is some anti-AI move or some other Facebook circular post shit. It’s like the people who have “anti-AI license” in their comments
Just block them and move on.
Sound advice, now if only people would stop making posts like this bringing it back up so the people blocking it wouldn’t have to keep dealing with it.
To be clear I don’t mind Sxan and their thorn usage, haven’t blocked them, but I can sympathize with people who just don’t want to see something but can’t escape it with everyone else constantly bringing it back up
This is the first post I’ve seen of it. Hardly constant.
Glad you’re not seeing them often!
This is what I did… I tried to ‘just move on’ without blocking them, but they had commented several times in a thread I was trying to read and it was such a distraction, so I blocked them and only ever think of them when I see posts like this. It’s a shame too because the person I blocked did seem to have worthwhile comments, they were just too annoying to try to read.
This again?
Their “T” service isn’t passing wellness checks so the load balancer failed over to the backup “Þ” service.
I’ve seen vastly more comments complaining about it than I have seen comments using it, just block them and move on.
What is with the blocking these days? Everyone is so quick to just “block and move on”.
Have people lost the ability to just skip what they dont want to read, or ignore things?
Most people probably can. But for people so upset about somebody else’s quirk that they need to post about it… yeah, they probably do need the reminder.
just respond to any of their posts with quirky shit of your own. my personal favorite is Belter Creole, nobody understands that shit.
If Earth’s gravity isn’t literal torture for you, then you have no chance of understanding Belter creole
Performative anti-LLM scraping nonsense. An LLM will have no trouble reading that. It just makes it more annoying for humans to read.
I’ve been randomly substituting the thorn ᚦ, the diphthong æ, the interobang ‽, and other such irregular typographical arcana into my casual writing for decades. Just took you-all an LLM to be mad at to pay attention.
Let’s not crucify people for being weird please. Nobody is average. We all have quirks.
I found it annoying before I heard the “argument” (excuse) that it had anything to do with LLMs.
Prpsly splling tings wrng is nt a qurk. t’s a cri fr attntn.
No tolerance for the intolerant
I can read it just fine?
Most poplo loko roodong on onglosh
Are you asking us whether you can?
Good for you
Some of us unfortunately struggle with dyslexia
Good for you. The rest of us find it annoying
Cliché but: user name checks out.
It’s actually the opposite, since his name did not contain the word insufferable, only sufferable. If you read the ‘Im’ as I’m, that means he is a self-professed sufferable ninja.
LOL true! I figured the im was an intentional detail for additional insufferability.
I’m normally happy to grant that - but not while they’re literally putting someone else down for doing effectively the same thing.
I found him: the one who speaks for everyone!
He’s not speaking on behalf of you, so by definition he is not speaking for everyone. Unless, you are actually a dog on the internet. Are you?
Oh I wonder if this is the same guy who’d tag a GPL license onto the end of his comments as if this were Facebook and they’re telling Mark Zuckerberg that he doesn’t have permission to use their comments.
They got mad when told them I was going to train a llm exclusively on their comments
Train it on his comments, set it to exclusive reply to him.ö
You’re being a dick for no reason and someone gets upset, big surprise
It’s an adolescent trying to find a unique identity to make them stand out. Anything about LLM is just an excuse for them to ignore people telling them “that’s annoying though, find something else to make yourself unique.”
Why care? Move on. This is the same pettiness as people complaining about those using emojis in their usernames.
I take more issue with you not blurring out the username.
Why blur out the name when everyone knows the user already? It would be like referencing the blahaj/dragonrider drama and blurring out dragonrider’s name.
There’s only like a handful of folks on the lemmyverse, it’s what gives it such a cozy feeling.
Emojis don’t make comments hard to read
If the Japanese can learn three alphabets with 46 + 46 + 2,136 characters respectively, you can learn one more. I believe in you.
Yu moshang mus’ drop ya on ya kop one too many times, yeh?
I appreciate the effort, but that’s an entirely different vernacular, not a single digraph replacement.
Na any effort, sasa ke. An’ if yu no can keep up, maybe time fo stretch ya horizon small-small, yeh?
I can keep up just fine, but you’re still not making the point you think you’re making. Also, why are you being insulting? Is it part of the schtick?
If yu sasa, den no problem, yeh?
Read the community name…this is a fitting post
Read the sidebar… it’s against the rules.
Where? Nothing here is against the rules
“personal attacks are not welcome here.” “No content that harrases members within or outside of the community.”
This isnt an attack or harassment . Saying “I find this annoying” isn’t an attack wtf
Its absolutely harassment. The entire purpose of this post is hey look someone’s different let’s mock them. There’s no other purpose for this. It’s absurd to pretend otherwise.
No it’s “ why is someone purposefully making their comments harder to understand, i find that annoying” which is valid. Their post made no insult to the person themselves and no call to action against them. All they did was imply it is mildly infuriating based on the community they posted in, which i am inclined to agree with
It’s a call-out post of a specific user including their username in which many comments are disparaging that user specifically. The post may not be calling for any action or inciting any harrasement directly, but lots of comments here are bordering on some pretty heavy vitriol for someone typing differently. I can’t make a post complaining about someone typing in German. It’s the Internet, you will encounter people doing things in different ways than you are used to, even for reasons you think are stupid but that doesn’t make it ok to create entire threads directing hate toward someone.
And before anyone asks, “apparently the t key doesn’t exist for some people, reading this shit gives me an aneurysm.” Is definitely coming from a hateful place. If you disagree then replace “the t key” with “English” and see if that feels right.
Good thing there’s nothing personal or attacking here.
There are literally "t"s in the screenshot.
Your argument is invalid.
They are “th”s actually
Let’s stop ᚦis before the train gets going:
- The original post content’s auᚦor replaced the letters ‘th’ with ᚦe more archaic ᚦ
- the original author said ᚦat all 't’s were replaced in an oversimplification
- ᚦe parent author noted that oᚦer 't’s were used which were not replaced.
- I’ve replaced about half my ‘th’ with 'ᚦ’s
Mi say dank, kopeng, fo share yu wit. Always good fo hear new noise, even when sound all wrong.
- ᚦe parent author noted that oᚦer 't’s were used which were not replaced.
I þink þat should be oðer, not oþer.
It doesn’t get more pretentious than people pulling this shit.
Þhere’s no reason to see it as pretentious. I þhink it’s cool and it’s a legible way of poisoning data.
oh, idk about that. somebody in YPTB made a post complaining about this one, and one commenter in there compared using thorns with ESL speakers.
I really do not understand the bugs up the arses. And i’m ASD with a particular bugbear about words in English. Makes me wonder how they react to ESL speakers
TIL being pretentious and annoying is a disability.
What if being pretentious and annoying is their disability. Could you find it in your heart to let it go, then?
why are you being ableist?
How is that ableist? I genuinely dont see it.
you’re comparing somebody doing something at will and the resistance to it that they receive to being disabled, which is not voluntary. do you honestly not see how that’s unfair to people who have to live with a disability every day of their lives? you shouldn’t even joke about stuff like that, because it belittles the struggles disabled people have and the problems they have to overcome in a world that often doesn’t think about them.
I see what you mean now.
The person you responded to at first, i think they played along with that comparison to argue that, even if it was a disability, being annoying doesnt justify bullying. They werent saying it is a disability, they were using another persons premise to argue that bullying isnt justified.
I know some people that are annoying in a way that doesnt seem to be a choice, they have a natural way of behaving that annoys people. And sometimes, what seems to be a choice to be annoying is just manifestations of a persons natural characteristics. So I think we cant actually make a clear distinction between whats a voluntary behaviour and a natural uncensored behaviour. We should just learn to deal with people less aggressively.
It would be cool if we had an app or server option to auto replace that character. As it is, I just ended up blocking the user.
I spent to much time in trans community to react normally to “T button”
