> republicans > hostility to RussiaLet me guess, your preferred form of government is “petty dictator killing people for not following the same exact lifestyle as he wants, but virtue signals to communism”.
This meme seeks to get an emotional response and it’s good at it. There’s some hidden truth there.
But both parties are nowhere the same and wouldn’t have a problem with such a two party system in different countries.
But they’re only parties, with all that brings. They alone won’t make the US a better country.
You say, from the instance whose admins and mods decided to go full Zionist
Yes, that’s what I say.
The uni-party trash system.
At least Democrats want to slowly slide us into a monarchy. MAGA wants it NOW!
do you want cancer to kill you now or do chemo and live for another 20 years?
What a country…
*3rd world shithole country
That’s an insult to all 3rd world shithole countries. At least they’re trying.
You don’t have to agree with everything, but there’s a lot of truth in this diagram. Both are serving AIPAC, both don’t care about woking class, both want to collapse the US with infinite military spending,…
“The United States, too, has a single party system. But in typical American extravagance they have two of them.”
Some stuff about Alligator Alcatraz…
Some stuff about hooking a brain dead pregnant woman up to life support to be kept alive like a science experiment and forced to give birth…
Some stuff about dismantling of government institutions like the department of education…
Some stuff about closing the civil rights office that was created in response to the patriot act…
Some stuff about not being sure if we have to follow habeas corpus…
Ya I could totally see how both sides are essentially the same…
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The center section is too small and should take up 95% of the total area.
US Democracy = Vote Far Rights or Fascists to combat this terrible Comunism, wearing shirts in Stars and Stripes design. Neo-liberal feudalism
We may have got here eventually anyway, but things are a lot worse for Americans right now because of Trump’s Republicans. Let’s not lose sight of that when complaining about the shit they have in common.
There’s also nobody who might emerge out of the right who would bring something that will make life for everyone better. Only the Democrats have a chance of doing that and engineering a better system that might eventuallyundermine their own political hegemony. Would they without pressure? Of course not. But the right will never even be pressured to do anything like that intentionally by it’s base, almost by definition basically.
Only the Democrats have a chance of doing that and engineering a better system that might eventuallyundermine their own political hegemony.
No they don’t
But the right will never even be pressured to do anything like that intentionally by it’s base,
The Democrats couldn’t be pressured to stop doing genocide even at the cost of losing the election
I don’t think you’re listening. That’s one of the issues both sides share in common that sucks. Doesn’t change the fact they’re our only hope.
The thing is that your asking tankies to be pragmatic about policy. They would rather let the Palestinian Genocide continue and works lose more rights than to do anything helpful in the near or medium term. They just aren’t serious about the issues.
Its easy for the .ml types to cry and wait for a perfect policy or candidate. They aren’t going hungry, nor under seige of any kind.
The thing is that your asking tankies to be pragmatic about policy.
This “pragmatism” is how we got here in the first place.
Its easy for the .ml types to cry and wait for a perfect policy or candidate.
We’re not looking for a perfect candidate under bourgeois democracy, because we know it will never happen. Previously:
The US government was never not captured by the bourgeoisie, because the US was born of a bourgeois revolution[1]. The wealthy, white, male, land-owning, largely slave-owning Founding Fathers constructed a bourgeois state with “checks and balances” against the “tyranny of the majority”. It was never meant to represent the majority—the working class—and it never has, despite eventually allowing women and non-whites (at least those not disenfranchised by the carceral system) to vote. BBC: [Princeton & Northwestern] Study: US is an oligarchy, not a democracy
We’re not looking for a perfect candidate under bourgeois democracy, because we know it will never happen. Previously:
In either case you’re not doing shit and you’re not a serious movement. Tankies don’t vote to minimize harm, nor do they vote to expand the progressive wing.
You all are effectively the ratchet democratsyou laughs at because you ultimately won’t show or organize for anything. Tankies aren’t serious people.
Schrodinger’s leftists; simultaneously the reason the Democrats lost the election and the biggest obstacle to progress, but also not a serious movement.
Non.voting is the largest block going back multiple cycles. Trolls like you are concerned but not enough to show up. I’m aware of your trolling, so I won’t entertain you much more
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I’m listening, I just think you’re wrong.
And I brought up that issue specific to show that the Democrats also “will never even be pressured to do anything like that intentionally by it’s base”
Progressive social change has always occurred under the auspices of the left-most of the two major parties. That’s just how it overwhelmingly is. What’s not to agree with? How do you think progress will happen next time it happens?
The hallmark progressive achievements made in this country, many that still exist today (to varying degrees ofc) were a result of third party sweat, blood and tears. Literally.
I recommend reading about the social/workers rights movements of the early 1900s. The Progressive Party led by Roosevelt, The Bull Moose Party with social reformers like Jane Addams and Florence Kelly, the Socialist Party of Eugene Debs… all of these were most prominent in fighting for and ultimately producing a cluster of social welfare, social insurance reforms, women’s suffrage, workers rights/5 day work week, etc.
It was the dedication, pressure and will to not fall in line trying to change the two-party duopoly from within but to build their own coalitions, their own movements on the outside, and thus the mainstream parties were eventually forced to inscribe the populus demands into legislation.
All that to say, healthy third parties are a good thing. It builds actual pressure on your constituents. You can’t take votes away from politicians who refuse to legislate on your behalf when they know you’re voting for them anyway – all the while lining their pockets with money from the bourgeois they actually legislate for. Seeking the change you wish to see via third party can and has produced tremendous gains for the working class.
Genocide Joe, you’re my only hope
Listen to yourself. You’re saying the Democrats are our only hope yet they also don’t listen.
Democrats do listen, but only to those with power. Before anything can change for the better we need power for ourselves.
If your only hope is a party comitting genocide you might as well abandon it and look elsewhere
Where?
PSL, DSA or whoever organizes where you currently are
You can and should support them as they align with your values, but you’ll never get enough votes for them to have any chance of overthrowing the big two. It has to be changed from within, unless you’re prepared to try violence.
Since changing from within is impossible, and voting in a new party is highly unlikely, it seems the revolutionaries were right all along.
Fuck voting, organizing is where its at. I swear if just half the free time as some people on here… (not you specifically)
I couldn’t agree more. Also:
Except MAGA is not neoliberalism unless we think tariffs are now “free trade”. I get the point that neither party will wield power against capitalism, but they still use their power differently.
Biden also implemented tariffs to China tho.
but they still use their power differently.
Well…Do they though? On that pesky genocide (sorry I forgot–lets not call it ‘genocide’, right, that makes dems queasy-- how about we just say some people seem to have dropped dead), Bidens pretend “push back” and “negotiations” and “red lines” and “plans to build a dock to get food in and then hand it to the Israelis just like every single other land border crossing” all show that the dem centrists are simply mercenaries paid by zionists. mercenaries who take the time to put up some theatre for their evil so people dont have to acknowledge it, but the exact same outcomes happen either way. Most of the deaths and most of the building demolitions happened under Biden. When you and I start trying to parse if it was slightly faster under Trump, aren’t we missing the point?
We lost Roe under Biden, who famously never supported a womans right to choose until right before he got tapped to be VP. Strange coincidence?
Appointing Merrick Garland as AG and then pretending to be powerless while Garland proceeded to lean right and sit on his hands for 4 entire years is another example. As is cracking down on free speech. And what did Biden do in the wake of all the police murders that the defund and reallocate movement brought to his door? He said explicitly that he didnt agree with the massive movement on the left, and shut it down, actually increasing police funding as an extra “eff you” to the dem voters. Same as a republican would. Wheres this imagined difference?
And Biden famously told rooms full of rich donors at the end of Trumps term that “nothing would fundamentally change” (from Trump’s first term) under him. This emncapsulates this whole discussion perfectly. Biden swearing to the rich that nothing will change, while pretending to run on change.
This is the same Biden who shut down a rail strike, and then slowly over time negotiated a tiny fraction of what the strikers wanted, and then called it a victory on their behalf-- and then had the effing gall to walk a picket line for a photo op so his surrogates could trumpet how union-friendly he was. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/01/joe-biden-rail-strike-labor-unions
Same Biden who during his term bragged about being harder on immigration than Trump ever had been-- and wore it like a badge of honor that he’d “closed the southern border”. https://jacobin.com/2024/06/biden-asylum-executive-order-border
Today centrist dems wont even admit there was ever any problem. So I guess you’d say we should change nothing and ignore the wildly eroding support and the poll numbers showing the democratic party has just 28% favorability?
So I guess you’d say we should change nothing and ignore the wildly eroding support and the poll numbers showing the democratic party has just 28% favorability?
My brother in Christ, you’re not talking to a liberal here.
Hrm I see you are correct. My bad, sorry.
Yeah you’re right, calling it “neoliberalism” at this point is questionable. They’re also blocking renewable energy businesses.
Thank God this image not only has the label “Venn Diagram” but also has a big red arrow pointing to the center and labeled “things the two parties have in common”. I had forgotten the name of this extremely common diagram and I also had no idea how it worked.
Just a reminder that the function of the Democratic party is to continually reduce expectations so that this diagram seems reasonable.
interesting to see right wing memes even on lemmy.
The fact that there are so many dislikes proves how propagandized the average American is. “How dare you call both sides the same” Well, they ojectively are pretty much the same with few exceptions.
Especially for non-Usian people, doubly especially for those on the working end of US “diplomacy” - bombs, coups and sanctions come regardless of which US administration, there is literally no difference whatsoever.
Yeah they’re the same except one of them wants to kill me and my friends
You must be very privileged or very ignorant to see things this way.
The Democratic Party is somewhat conservative and stand firmly behind capitalism. But they aren’t fascists. Not at all.Compare the last 6 months to the previous 4 years. You know they’re not.
I’m no fan of the democrats, but they don’t want to systematically exterminate people like me.
“Everyone who is an adult who realizes there is no unicorn party is completely propagandized. I am le very smart.”
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The DNC isn’t fighting for workers. They are bringing a gun to the gunfight, they just aren’t interested in using it against the GOP, as ultimately both serve capital. The US has never been a democracy for the people.
oh god i agree with cowbee wholeheartedly in a thread of discourse…
oh god oh fuck oh shit i can feel it happening… is it warm in here?
Я чувствую, как марксизм-ленинизм просачивается в мой мозг!!! make it stop….
Теперь я чувствую себя белым и пушистым… как коммунистический медведь.
—-
anyway joking aside appreciate lemmy collectively telling neolibs to shut the fuck up bc while plenty of things .ml says piss me off, they don’t piss me off nearly as much as seeing americans who haven’t ripped the bandaid off yet.
Hey, seems like a good enough reason to start looking into Marxist-Leninist theory as any! 😉
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Democrats seek to regulate said capital
No, they aren’t.
Serving capital does not mean we’re not a Democracy
If you think that you live under a democracy, i.e. that your government’s decisions reflect your wishes, then you should be held accountable for the genocides and invasions that your state keeps committing.
Attempting a coup of the government and disinformation does, however.
The US suffering a coup would at worst not make anything worse, including in terms of ‘democracy’.
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No they want to appear to regulate capital. Most of the time they don’t actually want to regulate it. Yes they won’t be as overt as to do the massive wealth transfers they the republicans do . But they will. Who was president in 08 ? Who continued to dump money into our military contracts despite running as anti war?
Like yeah the parties are different domestically but foreign policy wise the outcomes are usually the same.
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these swing state voters through compromise. Those compromises are ugly and unfair.
Unless that compromise is “don’t commit genocide”, then they’ll happily abaondon the swing-state voters.
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How did you quantity that 10x times?
My best naïve estimate puts Democrats at 1.44-1.98x as corrupt.
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They only seek to regulate capital as much as their megacorp and billionaire donors wish. The “Overton Window” has nothing to do with it.
Further, if both parties serve capital, then we have democracy for capital, not for the people.
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There are no “democratic socialist” countries. Democratic Socialism is a descriptor for reformist socialism, the closest we got was Salvador Allende in Chile. Socialism isn’t just “social programs,” socialism refers to a mode of production where public ownership is the principle aspect of the economy, ie the large firms and key industries. The Nordic countries are Social Democracies, welfare capitalism essentially.
The Nordic Countries have the large safety nets they do largely due to proximity with the USSR, who was the first to dramatically expand their safety nets. Combined with millitant labor organizing, these concessions in other countries forced the bourgeoisie’s hand. The problem is that these social safety nets in the global north are funded through imperialism, vast extraction from the global south.
The Overton Window has nothing to do with it. The system is dominated by capitalists, the only way to get even a fraction of what the workers want is through millitant organizing and running our own parties like PSL, the only way to actually get socialism is through revolution.
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One side supports a criminal Nazi apologist who tried to overthrow our Democracy and hasn’t given up yet.
And the other side commits genocide. It also overthrows other people’s democracy, but you don’t consider foreigners human.
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Most Democrats express greater sympathy for Palestinians. That’s not what I would call “committing genocide”.
Committing genocide is committing genocide. What the fuck is wrong with you?
What I see is Democrat officials expressing support, but powerless against Republicans who do not.
Then you had your eyes closed for all of 2024
That’s not supporting genocide. We’re fighting, but losing.
Genocide denier
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One side supports a criminal Nazi apologist who tried to overthrow our Democracy and hasn’t given up yet
This is some campist nonsense.
Octagon9561:
proves how propagandized the average American is
PastaFARRian:
✅
“Which side are you on?”
The “two party” system is on the same side.
