I’m going to create a distro where EVERYTHING including your web browser is launched through systemd and it’s built from nothing but snaps, just for you guys.
What’s with all the systemd hate? It seems to work well for me…
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Another problem is that there is (or was, I don’t follow these things) friction between the Kernel and systemd, as systemd developers did not respect certain development philosophies.
More information on this here:
When systemd sees “debug” as part of the kernel command-line, it will spit out so much informaiton about the system that it fails to boot… The init system just collapses the system with too much information being sent to the dmesg when seeing the debug option as part of the kernel command-line parameter. Within the systemd bug report it was suggested for systemd not to look for a simple “debug” string to go into its debug mode but perhaps something like “systemd.debug” or other namespaced alternatives. The debug kernel command-line parameter has been used by upstream Linux kernel developers for many years. However, upstream systemd developers don’t agree about changing their debug code detection. Kay Sievers of Red Hat wrote, “Generic terms are generic, not the first user owns them.”
tl;dr: systemd parsed kernel command line information; when “debug” was present, systemd enabled logging that was so verbose that it would cause the system to become unbootable. systemd developers were notified of the issue and started acting passive aggressive instead of fixing the issue.
Or to put it more simply: if you make changes that cause Linus Torvalds’ system to stop booting properly, you’re probably gonna have a bad time.
Don’t forget the development issues. Last I read up on this was several years ago, so things may have changed, but:
It’s open source, but it’s entirely controlled by a handful of people who work for RedHat, and they don’t publish any of their communications about development nor any supporting material like code documentation. It’s a massive complicated codebase and they’ve made no effort to make it accessible, nor do they allow contributions from anyone outside the RedHat team, so it remains a closed black box controlled by a private, for profit corporation.
It’s open source in the worst way possible.
oh my dear god TAKE COVER, TUCK EVERYTHING IN AND COVER THE WINDOWS, THE FIRST SHOTS HAVE BEEN FIRED EVERYONE DUCK UNDER THE TABLE I REPEAT THE FINAL WAR HAS BEGUN
You could call it… Ubuntu 24.10 the way things are going lol
please add a trigger warning!
Fwiw, pop!_os doesn’t have snapd by default but has a Ubuntu feel. Flatpak support is by default with their app store.
Fedora is a great choice too, that’s where I point people who are coming from Ubuntu most of the time. I’m not the biggest redhat fan these days but Fedora strikes a good balance between stability and staying up to date.
Does Pop! have a good KDE flavor?
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How does the fediverse feel about flatpak?
It’s as close to a “universal packaging system” as can get now.
There was a lot of talk back in time, when Ubuntu decided to forcefully shove snaps onto users. The thing is, Ubuntu could have embraced flatpaks like many other distros but it chose snaps which is not ideal for people who like an OS whose primary goals revolve around freedom and privacy. You see, it is the proprietary nature of snaps that gets them this hate.
Appimage and other packaging methods don’t get this hate because they are open source and users have a “choice”. What we are seeing against snaps is the result of forcing people to a choice, ofcourse the people in question are linux users - people who are famous about taking freedom of choice seriously. Yes, you can get ride of snaps on Ubuntu but you can get rid of lot of ads and stuff on windows with a lot of tinkering too - I think you see the point.
Many people tend to have a preference for flatpaks because they do basically what snaps do but better and ofcourse flatpaks fit into the “freedom and privacy” spirit of linux.
Fixes every issue with Snap and has a big company behind it to keep it developing.
I really like flatpak! But it has its limitations. Thats okay!
There is just a space for containerized images of desktop apps that are distro independent. Linus talks about this at a QA, but having a maintrainer for every app and every distro under the sun is just a waste (he used his diving app as an example). Flat park is a good solution for packaging up apps, and it makes sense for stand alone apps that have a lot of moving parts and don’t need to integrate with the rest your intro. Their are basically 5 apps that I use everyday that install through flatpak. Stuff like discord and Joplin.
At the same time, if something is supported through the distro package manager directly, I would rather install through that. Especially for core system components, but also for apps that aren’t really daily drivers for me. I definitely feel like I have to actively maintain flatpak installations, so if I can install without a flatpak, I would rather not. For small apps, especially simple command line apps, their probably isn’t that much maintenance work to get them on the distro anyway.
I liked snaps until I tried them
people get way too riled up over this
No they fucking don’t asswipe, how dare you? The fuck is your problem? I’m going to burn your house down.
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.
That missing comma is really confusing. For a moment I thought people weren’t wiping their asses…
I have no idea why people still use Ubuntu when all the news and talk about it has just been negative the last few years.
Tbh, the meme isn’t wrong. If you strongly dislike snaps, get a different distro.
That’s the cool thing about Linux based systems: There are enough for everyone and you can customize them any way you want. Just get something that fits your taste.
Didn’t we see similar snap memes yesterday and the day before?
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Mint would be the primary choice for a non-snap *buntu.
I would love to love snaps, it seems so easy, but for some reason it always is super buggy once stuff is installed. I installed and removed docker via snap like 5 times in a one month period before just using apt and haven’t had an issue in months.
It was weird because I set a static ip for my server on my local network via my ASUS router (e.g. used the admin console to set the locks up to 10.0.0.5 instead of the 10.0.0.49 it was). After a couple days docker would freak out and refused to work because it kept looking for stuff on 10.0.0.49. I would have to reset some config files then it would work again. Finally gave up and used apt and haven’t had an issue since
Ubuntu didn’t have snaps when I installed this system …
I will never understand this controversial stupidity, why people can not use what they want and this without having “prejudice”?
The thing about Ubuntu and snaps is that they are pushing it and “forcing” its users to use it.
You can uninstall it using
sudo apt remove snapdbut if you then try to install eg. firefox usingsudo apt install firefox— voilà! — snapd is back.Not sure how they are forcing their users to use snaps any more than debian is forcing their users to use apt. It’s a package manager the distro is consciously supporting. If you don’t like snaps then you should probably just stop using Ubuntu.
Yes, I agreeing that symlinking sunsetted apt packages to install the snap version without prior notification is a bit underhanded: I can see they want to make the switch easy for casual users, but the transparency isn’t there for advanced users. I still think it’s a fine distro for newer and casual users.
The comic is depicting someone who doesn’t want to use snaps then being upset when they run into snaps after choosing a disto that is known for snaps. The comic is not making fun of people who like or dislike snaps, it’s making fun of people who dislike snaps but then choose to use a disto with snaps.
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I, too, enjoy being locked into a single Canonical run repo.
Picking up some popcorn 🍿
Snap is just flatpak but worse for most cases (the only exception being cli apps). The fact canonical are pushing it so badly makes Linux more fragmented for no real reason.
Obvious solution: don’t use distro that uses snap
