Uhhh Russia invaded unoccupied Poland at the same time as Nazi Germany.
While it’s inaccurate to characterize them as “victims of communism” it’s full blown anti-intellectualism, and astonishingly disrespectful to the polish people, to deny their suffering under Soviet occupation.
The Soviet Union largely stuck to areas Poland had invaded and annexed a few decades earlier, and did so largely to prevent the Nazis from taking all of Poland. Genuinely, what should the Soviet Union have done instead? Let the Nazis take all of Poland?
Genuinely, what should the Soviet Union have done instead? Let the Nazis take all of Poland?
Jfc you are sociopath aren’t you? False Dichotomy of the century! Heres a fuckin idea… NOT DO ALL THIS SHIT??
In total, the Soviets killed tens of thousands of Polish prisoners of war. Many of them, like General Józef Olszyna-Wilczyński, captured, interrogated and shot on 22 September, were killed during the 1939 campaign.[22][23] On 24 September, 1939, the Soviets killed 42 staff and patients of a Polish military hospital in the village of Grabowiec, near Zamość.[24] The Soviets also executed all the Polish officers they captured after the Battle of Szack, on 28 September.[25]
by January 1940 the NKVD’s campaign was also directed against potential allies, including Polish Communists and Socialists. Those arrested included Władysław Broniewski, Aleksander Wat, Tadeusz Peiper, Leopold Lewin, Anatol Stern, Teodor Parnicki, Marian Czuchnowski and many others.[28] The Soviet NKVD executed about 65,000 imprisoned Poles after being subjected to show trials.[17]
Approximately 100,000 Polish citizens were arrested during the two years of Soviet occupation.[31] The prisons soon got severely overcrowded, with all detainees accused of anti-Soviet activities.[17] The NKVD had to open dozens of ad-hoc prison sites in almost all towns of the region.[32] The wave of arrests and mock convictions contributed to the forced resettlement of large categories of people (“kulaks”, Polish civil servants, forest workers, university professors, “osadniks”) to the Gulag labour camps and exile settlements in remote areas of the Soviet Union.
No youre right. Their only option was to out Nazi the Nazis.
Most of the area the Soviets took are areas in modern Lithuania and Ukraine. Poland had annexed them in the Polish-Soviet War and the Polish-Lithuanian War earlier.
As for the second question, no, I’m not a sociopath, I’m genuinely asking you if you would have rather had the Nazis take all of Poland.
That’s not what I said. You’re jumping to conclusions, putting words in someone’s mouth, and engaging in a brain rotten way of interacting with people.
Assuming everyone pointing out that you were doing Holocaust trivialization is USian is chauvanistic, same with insinuating others must not’ve finished highschool English.
You guys are snipping apart and mis-quoting my comments like its your first day seeing punctuation.
You’re doing a great job exampling Canadian love for Nazis.
We narrowly avoided our own MAGA government. We have a huge ass right wing nazi problem… and “Death to Canada” is a fucking goldmine for them publicity wise.
I’m not sure if you’re being purposefully obtuse or joking but deciding not to do something is an act in itself. You asked what they should have done, they should’ve decided against pact with Nazi Germany. That’s the start. Then prepare for all that entails.
We know they chose to make a pact with the Nazis and to divide Poland, they chose to invade the parts the Nazis left to them, they decided on all of these actions. They weren’t some inevitable laws of nature bound to happen and impossible to avoid
Their instance hints it’s rather a defence mechanism against the moral ramifications of making a deal with Nazis. It’s not an unfamiliar thing to me, I’ve seen it a lot
They didn’t, the closest is there being lines neither country should cross. Both the Soviets and Nazis knew war was coming between them and that the treaty would not hold for long, it wasn’t a long-term plan.
Having a pact and zones of interest freed up manpower for Nazis to use in other parts of Europe. That’s how it was part in enabling them. Not that USSR would’ve been guilty of that alone or nowhere near the first to enable the Nazis.
My complaint is making a deals and pacts with Nazis. Again, that includes everyone, not just USSR. If everyone had put up stronger opposition from the start then all could’ve been stopped way earlier.
The only one trying to do that legitimately was the USSR, Britain and France sabotaged talks of anti-Nazi alliance every single time. The west wanted the Nazis and Soviets to kill each other, and then finish off the weaker one if possible.
The USSR tried extremely hard to form a unified opposition to the Nazis, and the Western powers responded by signing pacts with the Nazis. As a result, the USSR was left with the choice to also sign a pact to buy time and keep the Nazis out of some of Eastern Europe for a time, or to let them have Eastern Europe and then have to fight a war from a worse position with less preparation.
They literally did choose the option that allowed them to put up the strongest opposition possible. If they had done what you wanted, the Nazis would have won the Eastern front.
We don’t know when Nazis would’ve invaded USSR. They still had Western Allies to deal with. The pact gave breathing room to USSR but it also pointed them towards West. So same deal as what the West wanted to do.
Sure would’ve been great if the Soviet Union had the industrial power to take Nazi Germany on by itself, or had the trade with the west at the time to help close the gap. No perfect solution was available to the Soviets.
We know that the Soviet Union was industrializing at incredibly high rates, but was still far behind Germany in total industrialization. We know that the west was trading a ton with the Nazis, and were hostile to the Soviets. We know that the Nazis and Soviets hated each other. What should the Soviet Union have done? Declare war before they were ready, and risk everyone allying with Nazi Germany? Let the Nazis take all of Poland?
Prepare for war within their own borders, mobilize. That alone would’ve helped overall anti-Nazi effort. Now they could first divide Poland with the Soviets and then focus on the West and then head East. East and West being mobilized would’ve been a big barrier.
If this isn’t a trollpost and your not getting paid for it, then I’m just baffled on how wrong someone can be regarding generic historical facts. Aside from the idea itself, that it is somehow normal and even commendable to assist foreign states against enemies without them requesting it, all the while criticizing the US for similar actions, your opinion ignores the whole Molotov-Ribbentrop secret pact.
And for argument’s sake, let’s just pretend, that Soviets were of kind heart and mind and truly wanted to help and protect the Polish people from the horrifing Nazis they so clearly detested. Then why did they host a joint parade in Brest-Litovsk after having conquered Poland?? Or better yet, why did they mercilessly execute 20 000 officers in the woods of Katyn? Not to mention the fact that the Warsaw Uprising failed because the Soviets deliberatly waited for all future dissidents to be killed off, before “liberating” it.
I didn’t ignore anything, I wrote about it in greater detail here. There was no “secret pact.” As for the parade, it was marked for the withdrawal of the Nazis from where they had overstretched. As for Katyn, the Nazis “discovered” the site, and Goebbels was the one to popularize it, yet the execution method of shooting civilians (children included) from behind into a mass grave was one the Nazis repeated countless times yet the Soviets were never found to “repeat” this method, and further, the ammunition was from Nazi Germany.
Most of the area the Soviets took are areas in modern Lithuania and Ukraine. Poland had annexed them in the Polish-Soviet War and the Polish-Lithuanian War earlier.
As for the second question, no, I’m not a sociopath, I’m genuinely asking you if you would have rather had the Nazis take all of Poland.
It’s entirely good-faith, and you don’t need to resort to insults to avoid it. What should the USSR have done? The west already rejected the USSR’s pleas for an anti-Nazi pact, and the Nazis had already taken the vast majority of Poland.
You quite literally claimed the Soviets “out-Nazi’d the Nazis.” You aren’t being a serious person, and you’re hiding behind ableist insults. What about the Lithuanians and Ukrainians annexed by Poland?
Uhhh Russia invaded unoccupied Poland at the same time as Nazi Germany.
While it’s inaccurate to characterize them as “victims of communism” it’s full blown anti-intellectualism, and astonishingly disrespectful to the polish people, to deny their suffering under Soviet occupation.
The Soviet Union largely stuck to areas Poland had invaded and annexed a few decades earlier, and did so largely to prevent the Nazis from taking all of Poland. Genuinely, what should the Soviet Union have done instead? Let the Nazis take all of Poland?
Soviets took over 52% of Poland. Your argument is extremely fucking invalid.
Jfc you are sociopath aren’t you? False Dichotomy of the century! Heres a fuckin idea… NOT DO ALL THIS SHIT??
No youre right. Their only option was to out Nazi the Nazis.
JFC humanity is cooked.
Most of the area the Soviets took are areas in modern Lithuania and Ukraine. Poland had annexed them in the Polish-Soviet War and the Polish-Lithuanian War earlier.
As for the second question, no, I’m not a sociopath, I’m genuinely asking you if you would have rather had the Nazis take all of Poland.
You are doing holocaust trivialization with that second-to-last paragraph. While the things listed are bad, they are by no means worse than the Nazis.
That’s not what I said. You’re jumping to conclusions, putting words in someone’s mouth, and engaging in a brain rotten way of interacting with people.
You literally just called someone a sociopath.
Thats pretty much exactly what you said
Y’all are doing a great job exampling Americans’ poor reading comprehension.
Clearly I’m being facetious… if you passed highschool english.
a) not a seppo
b) your facetiousness was rather obviously
as in
which is holocaust trivialization
This is the meme my top comment is replying to:
https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/a2b0fa6c-290d-40ea-af48-e335727cccfb.webp
This is my statement about that meme:
Not only nazis were harmed by the soviet invasion of Poland. That’s all I said. that’s all I’m saying. If you can’t accept that than that’s on you.
It’s not my fault you sea lioning winners found dumb shit to justify misrepresenting what I’m saying.
Assuming everyone pointing out that you were doing Holocaust trivialization is USian is chauvanistic, same with insinuating others must not’ve finished highschool English.
You’re doing a great job exampling Canadian love for Nazis.
You guys are snipping apart and mis-quoting my comments like its your first day seeing punctuation.
We narrowly avoided our own MAGA government. We have a huge ass right wing nazi problem… and “Death to Canada” is a fucking goldmine for them publicity wise.
Start with not making a pact with Nazis to divide Europe imo. That’s one part that was enabling the Nazi expansion.
Them: “so what should they have done?”
You: “Well I’ll tell you what they shouldn’t have done!”
So, in short, you can’t actually answer the question.
I’m not sure if you’re being purposefully obtuse or joking but deciding not to do something is an act in itself. You asked what they should have done, they should’ve decided against pact with Nazi Germany. That’s the start. Then prepare for all that entails.
We know they chose to make a pact with the Nazis and to divide Poland, they chose to invade the parts the Nazis left to them, they decided on all of these actions. They weren’t some inevitable laws of nature bound to happen and impossible to avoid
“I shot a man, what should I have done?”
“Well not shoot him”
“yOu haVen’T anSweRed thE quEstion”
lol
Damn, that’s a lot of words to still not be able to answer the question
“So what should they have done??”
“Don’t make a pact with them prepare for war”
You: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxnJcZvuRK8&t=140
Why are you linking youtube videos instead of answering the question?
The question has been answered, you’re being purposefully obtuse and I’m making fun of that.
It’s just a troll :)
Their instance hints it’s rather a defence mechanism against the moral ramifications of making a deal with Nazis. It’s not an unfamiliar thing to me, I’ve seen it a lot
Why do you losers always try to talk like anime villains?
I have no idea what this even means. Too many big words or what
Trolling is when anyone questions western Chauvinists
Haha, what a crazy way of thinking.
“Don’t eat your own shit!”
“Well, what should I do instead?! 😕”
Still can’t answer the question, I see
They didn’t, the closest is there being lines neither country should cross. Both the Soviets and Nazis knew war was coming between them and that the treaty would not hold for long, it wasn’t a long-term plan.
Having a pact and zones of interest freed up manpower for Nazis to use in other parts of Europe. That’s how it was part in enabling them. Not that USSR would’ve been guilty of that alone or nowhere near the first to enable the Nazis.
So your complaint is that the USSR didn’t take even more of the brunt of the Nazis forces.
My complaint is making a deals and pacts with Nazis. Again, that includes everyone, not just USSR. If everyone had put up stronger opposition from the start then all could’ve been stopped way earlier.
The only one trying to do that legitimately was the USSR, Britain and France sabotaged talks of anti-Nazi alliance every single time. The west wanted the Nazis and Soviets to kill each other, and then finish off the weaker one if possible.
Western Allies were fighting way before USSR. So was Poland.
The USSR tried extremely hard to form a unified opposition to the Nazis, and the Western powers responded by signing pacts with the Nazis. As a result, the USSR was left with the choice to also sign a pact to buy time and keep the Nazis out of some of Eastern Europe for a time, or to let them have Eastern Europe and then have to fight a war from a worse position with less preparation.
They literally did choose the option that allowed them to put up the strongest opposition possible. If they had done what you wanted, the Nazis would have won the Eastern front.
We don’t know when Nazis would’ve invaded USSR. They still had Western Allies to deal with. The pact gave breathing room to USSR but it also pointed them towards West. So same deal as what the West wanted to do.
Sure would’ve been great if the Soviet Union had the industrial power to take Nazi Germany on by itself, or had the trade with the west at the time to help close the gap. No perfect solution was available to the Soviets.
I mean we don’t know what would’ve happened but yes everyone was playing time and hoping Nazis would look elsewhere for at least some time.
We know that the Soviet Union was industrializing at incredibly high rates, but was still far behind Germany in total industrialization. We know that the west was trading a ton with the Nazis, and were hostile to the Soviets. We know that the Nazis and Soviets hated each other. What should the Soviet Union have done? Declare war before they were ready, and risk everyone allying with Nazi Germany? Let the Nazis take all of Poland?
Prepare for war within their own borders, mobilize. That alone would’ve helped overall anti-Nazi effort. Now they could first divide Poland with the Soviets and then focus on the West and then head East. East and West being mobilized would’ve been a big barrier.
If this isn’t a trollpost and your not getting paid for it, then I’m just baffled on how wrong someone can be regarding generic historical facts. Aside from the idea itself, that it is somehow normal and even commendable to assist foreign states against enemies without them requesting it, all the while criticizing the US for similar actions, your opinion ignores the whole Molotov-Ribbentrop secret pact.
And for argument’s sake, let’s just pretend, that Soviets were of kind heart and mind and truly wanted to help and protect the Polish people from the horrifing Nazis they so clearly detested. Then why did they host a joint parade in Brest-Litovsk after having conquered Poland?? Or better yet, why did they mercilessly execute 20 000 officers in the woods of Katyn? Not to mention the fact that the Warsaw Uprising failed because the Soviets deliberatly waited for all future dissidents to be killed off, before “liberating” it.
I didn’t ignore anything, I wrote about it in greater detail here. There was no “secret pact.” As for the parade, it was marked for the withdrawal of the Nazis from where they had overstretched. As for Katyn, the Nazis “discovered” the site, and Goebbels was the one to popularize it, yet the execution method of shooting civilians (children included) from behind into a mass grave was one the Nazis repeated countless times yet the Soviets were never found to “repeat” this method, and further, the ammunition was from Nazi Germany.
Soviets took over 52% of Poland. Your argument is extremely fucking invalid.
Jfc you are sociopath aren’t you?
Most of the area the Soviets took are areas in modern Lithuania and Ukraine. Poland had annexed them in the Polish-Soviet War and the Polish-Lithuanian War earlier.
As for the second question, no, I’m not a sociopath, I’m genuinely asking you if you would have rather had the Nazis take all of Poland.
Than youre a moron or an asshole because that is not a good faith question.
It’s entirely good-faith, and you don’t need to resort to insults to avoid it. What should the USSR have done? The west already rejected the USSR’s pleas for an anti-Nazi pact, and the Nazis had already taken the vast majority of Poland.
Sounds like something a sociopath would say after trying to convince someone war crimes were justifiable cuz of the existence of other war crimes.
You deserve to be insulted for what you’re saying -Po polsku.
You quite literally claimed the Soviets “out-Nazi’d the Nazis.” You aren’t being a serious person, and you’re hiding behind ableist insults. What about the Lithuanians and Ukrainians annexed by Poland?
You literally asked me if it would be better for nazis to commit war crimes than the soviets.
That’s fucked up. You deserve to be called negative things for saying that.