Literally every accusation from a right winger is a confession
So the takeaway is that when we take power we should do the bad things the previous group in power did?
It’s not the same thing.
Judging behaviour and actions is entirely different to judging people for who they are.
People are compiled of their actions and behaviors so I am not really getting what you are trying to say.
Some traits are inherent / congenital, historically these were used to judge and “cancel” people
Still are at times
I dont recall the religious right cancelling people due to their inherent characteristics. On the other hand, the left actively discriminates against people for the same thing.
Oh really? I wonder if a religions have ever used gender to define what roles a person can have and who gets a platform?
I’m not sure if we’re just definitely terms differently or you’re lacking an understanding of history here.
The religious right has always given a voice to a small number of people and cancelled everyone else
Seems like that’s the agenda these days.
Yeah, kind of sucks.
It sucks terribly.
Well, yeah, but it’s not supposed to happen to them. They’re the ones who are supposed to be in charge, not just morally and ethically, but also economically. If they can get called out for their bullshit it’s a warning sign to them. Their massive privileges are being eroded and it scares the shit out of them.
How much have you read about the history of religion?
If they’re not doing it to others, they’re doing it to themselves. The last time there wasn’t a Christian church leader ranting about an evil person was around year 0.
As German comedian Volker Pispers said: “It’s important to know who the enemy is. If you know the enemy, every day has a proper, basic structure.”
When was the last time there wasn’t an atheist ranting about how evil Christians are?
Seems to me fundy Christians and atheists are two sides of the same obnoxious coin.
The problem is there is no edge on that coin.
You can’t really debate on whether to trust science or have faith. They are antipodal way of thinking.
One thing you could do is reduce the two to their consequences for society and pick which one is wrong using your moral instinct or personal philosophy.
(You can even do like some people and choose when to apply each one…)
But you sure won’t make people shut up about their own morals and vision for society. It’s too involving, we’re bound to be obnoxious.
You can’t really debate on whether to trust science or have faith.
They really aren’t. Science is about understanding how things work, and religion is about pondering our place in the universe, and morals. It’s really only fundamentalists that take scriptures literally and the fundamentalist atheists that believe all religious people are fundamentalists.
The only thing worse than being cornered by someone saying “have you been saved by Jesus Christ our lord and saviour” is being stuck talking to an atheist that’ll go on for much longer about their belief that religion caused all the world’s problems. At least a religious person is capable of saying something positive now and then.
They do overlap in their goals.
God is the creator of the universe science describe. God itself, if he existed, would be a topic of science.
Science is answering our pondering about our place in the universe. We can also be scientists and create a moral belief system that’s not based on God.
Separating them is part of the compartmentalization we do to avoid conflict or our self contradictions.
Fundamentalists in both religion and atheism think the other view is wrong and should not exist. That’s very different from just recognizing we have different point of views.
And atheists aren’t all such morons to think religion is such a problem. Most atheist can respect religious people as long as they’re not fundamentalist.
Science is answering our pondering about our place in the universe. We can also be scientists and create a moral belief system that’s not based on God.
That wouldn’t be science. It would be a religion.
For most of history science was done by the religious because few other people were literate. We long ago decided it would be better to have people specialized in science, and separated science from religion. And it worked really well.
Now you want to turn science into a religion? We already know that wouldn’t work very well. Why would you want this? It seems to me you’re not really against the concept of religion you just don’t like the religions we currently have.
Science isn’t about beliefs. It depends on people being skeptical of everything. Searching for empirical evidence that’s contrary to current theories so those theories can be improved and sometimes even replaced. Science is a process. Mixing morals and beliefs into science makes for bad morals and bad science.
Science is a method to find truth by telling us how to construct proofs.
What we call rationality in general, in which science is based on, is to use proof to believe in something.
Whereas faith and so religion is believing without proof.
So as a scientist you do believe in any theory that has been proven. And of course you change your beliefs with each new information.
Believing isn’t just a word we use for religion, it also means to accept something is true.
I don’t think most scientists were religious, but for the one that were, people are never coherent, they can use science for some beliefs and religion for others even if that’s contradictory.
As for moral, i didn’t explicitly say it’s science, because it isn’t, it’s philosophy. But scientists that don’t want to believe in God and his morals have created other philosophies and morals.
Some based on the same premise of rationality as science. For which science can even be a tool.
Conversely the foundation of science always was motivated by philosophical questions about reality. And it’s application always had concerned about morals.
P.S. I don’t have faith, and i do think most current religions have bad morals and are just manipulative organizations. But most religious people are not part of them, most of them are good people. Their faith isn’t a problem for me or anyone, and can even be good driving force.
What do you even mean? By that standard everyone is obnoxious.
Or perhaps you think the lightweight religious folk are magically less obnoxious? I dunno.
The people “ranting about cancel culture” are not the generalized group “Christians.” What can you do though? Lemmy fully embraces hate against Christians.
Don’t like the fact that you belong to a group known for being shitty? Clean your fucking house or leave the group. Don’t tell us they don’t belong in your group. Tell them.
But if all the horrible people left Christianity, they wouldn’t be the dominant religion anymore, and they can’t have that!
Why shouldn’t I hate Christians? Or Muslims? They cause nothing but pain in this world
Don’t hate individuals. Hate their doctrine.
Don’t hate fascists, hate fascism.
Yeah that’s fair. I still don’t like to get very close to religious people though just due to past trauma in my life.
What was the religion of most of the most harmful people of the 20th century?
Probably not possible to accurately know. Death tolls from all major offenders in the millions
Yeah exactly. If you look at the top bad guys of last century, the names that will roll into your head should be; stalin, mao, hitler, pol pot. And what you will notice as none of those guys had a paticular religion and were maybe even anti religion. So the idea that religion is the thing that causes the harm doesnt make any sense.
Christianity has killed way more than those individuals could ever dream of
Sure thing bro, commands like “love thy neighbor” just throw people into a murderous craze!
What about two commandments for cheating on your wife? A greater sin than murder lol
It only exists to control people
Hitler called himself a Christian.
Hitler was not a christian, he literally wanted to get the christian influence out of german society.
Hey look, Christians conveniently claiming that Christians they don’t like aren’t really Christian!
I really need to learn some slurs for Christians and start using them more
In the private Tabletalk interviews Hitler talked about his deep Christian beliefs, which he had always talked about publicly. He wanted to create a German National Christian church in the same model that England has its own national Christian Church with the King as the head. (Anglicans).
If Hitler wasn’t Christian, then British Anglicans (the majority of all Christians in Britain and North Ireland) aren’t Christian either.
What was the religion of most of the most harmful people of the 20th century?
Money.
I would agree to some extent, but say it would be power/control.
Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
The lie the new atheist movement led everyone to believe was that religion is the problem, and that when we get rid of religion then everyone will be happy and get along. America is the furthest from religion it has been in its history, are things going great?
On issues motivated by religion, yes, America is moving in the right direction. LGBT acceptance, reproductive rights, etc.
Christians and religious people in general make up a substantial portion of charitable work around the work. So I think that easily disproves your claim that they cause nothing but pain.
Really your statement just comes across as childish and uninformed probably because of the large amount of propaganda you consume from places like this.
Why shouldn’t you hate 55%+ of the world? Do you really believe more than half the people in the world contribute nothing but pain?
Also why didn’t you include Jews? They’re the root of Abrahamic religion and currently the “Jewish homeland” is engaging in genocide.
It’s just silly but also worrying that you could have such a skewed view of reality.
Religious charity work is a recruitment tactic. It exploits the vulnerable, converts them into religious people and voters. And by voting for the right, they’ll contribute to the rotting of the very same social services that churches exploit.
I work as a desk clerk in a Hungarian social institution, and the people that should be responsible for mental health instead more preoccupied with converting people to some form of christianity, all while we supposed to be “secular” on paper.
Religion and austerity are good friends.
I also feel the same about Jews. There aren’t very many religious beliefs I am tolerant of.
Charity and religion have nothing to do with each other btw lol. People can be charitable without being religious.
Christians, for example, are only “charitable” because they are trying to recruit members. Do you have any idea how much wealth is sitting at the top of the catholic church hierarchy?
Charity is good. Charity in the name of god or any other purpose is bad.
If Christians didn’t hamstring non -Christian groups and government services at every turn, there would be no need for these charities and/or the most popular charities would not be the ones feeding bibles to starving people.
I dont mind Christians being charitable. I do oppose them using it to recruits or to pressure people in need to listen to their preachings. That’s not charity that is exploitation. True charity wants nothing in return.
You already said it yourself, the majority of the world is religious. The two things aren’t correlated though.
Now google “residential schools” or “the crusades” for example lol
Apparently you didn’t read any of the hundreds of studies mentioned there showing religious people are more charitable.
Yeah to recruit members, it’s just a business.
Ever been to eastern Europe and visited the fancy gold plated cathedrals? Notice who is driving the new Mercedes s550 parked in the parking lot, and notice what the church attendees are driving. Charitable my ass.
my brother in hell, if I believed in religion, and my religion says giving some amount to it or someone else gets me express pass to heaven, i’d be donating like crazy too. I’d be donating more if I know I’ve done horrible things and need more “blessing.”
The charity doesn’t negate the bad things religion has done.
Yeah they’re just the loudest and proudest people who wear crosses around their neck and only vote for other people who are loud and proud of their Christian love wanting to ban anything remotely “sinful.” Everyone knows that Christians are the most oppressed in the West! Truly no one knows how hard it is to be a follower of the majority belief, and never need to defend it from the state.
Also here’s a brief list of things Christians tried to cancel in the United States: Comic books, rock and roll, jazz, dungeons and dragons, magic the gathering, radio, television, other forms of Christianity, anything remotely queer, Italians, Irish, Chinese, Jews, abolitionists, civil rights marchers, feminists…
And here’s the entire list of times Christians were oppressed by laws pushed by non-Christian groups/state actors in the United States and the West in general:
Truly no one knows how hard it is to be a follower of the majority belief
That’s the thing, it is the majority belief (well over 50% of the population) and yet the draconian over reach you are complaining about does not have the support of nearly 50% of the population. Therefore there must be a large number of Christians that are also against it. They are on your side. I don’t know why you are trying so hard to insist they are your enemy.
Yeah Christians are so persecuted. I feel so bad for them. Good thing you’re here to defend them or they wouldn’t be that most powerful group in the country.
Your response makes no sense, I never said they were. I said this meme is inaccurate and that Lemmy embraces hate against Christians.
I don’t hate the believer, I hate the beliefs. /s
Ok I’ll spell it out for you instead of joking around then. This meme is incredibly accurate. There has been nothing in human history that has caused more pain and harm than religion and Christianity is the worst offender. It absolutely deserves critique and you’re being unreasonable for saying that Lemmy is wrong for doing so.
Delusional. Also Lemmy doesn’t criticize religion, it just promotes hatred for Christianity in the general sense. If the same memes were posted about Muslims moderators would remove them.
I actually agree with you that Islam is equal levels of shit compared to Christianity. “Islamophobia” is a bullshit word that I’m still confused why it exists. Of course people are afraid of Islam lmao.
Still though, the death tolls thanks to both religions are so high you can’t even find estimates. Who knows which one killed more millions of people.
Yeah, the fact that parts of Lemmy actually seems to embrace radical Idlam because it “fights the west” is pretty uncomfortable.
There you go again pretending that Christianity is being oppressed when: 1) it’s not and 2) it deserves to be so even if you weren’t full of shit it would be appropriate
Hi, Jew here. You have no fucking idea what hatred means. Oh boo hoo, people were mean to your religion on the Internet.
I’m guessing no one ever kicked the shit out of you personally because you were a Christian. I wish I could say the same.
I’ll leave it to you to guess what religion the people who have done that to me adhered to. Hint: Not Islam, Jainism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, Confucianism, Shintoism, Baha’i, Wicca, Unitarian Universalism or any traditional indigenous religions.
Hate isn’t canceling. If people were shutting down churches or demonizing random church goers for being church goers you’d be right… but they aren’t.
An anecdote is not evidence of a culture of cancelling.
I thought that the article being from this morning would say enough, but I mean… https://www.christianpost.com/news/436-acts-of-hostility-against-us-churches-documented-in-2023.html
Nobody would fuck with churches if churches stayed quiet and stopped trying to impose their morality on the rest of us. Because of religion we are losing fundamental human rights. I’d be pissed too.
Real
Burned heretics
*American Christians.
A lot more than just American xtians. There are countries where people cannot get safe, legal abortions because of the stranglehold that xtians have on the political class. Likewise access to contraceptives and even sex education within the school system.
All Christians
Decades? Millennia!
Why yes, cancelling, shunning, etc is bad.
Never mind Christians- long before this “cancel culture” bullshit started, Republicans were perfectly happy to censor the Dixie Chicks and basically destroy their careers because they dared to criticize George W. Bush.
I’ve never heard any of them say that was wrong of them, just that cancel culture is the worst thing ever.
The campaigns to ban video games by Christian groups is one of the biggest examples of cancel culture in modern times.
That’s a long time ago. Didn’t that happen in the 90s?
The 90’s weren’t that long ago to some of us. But yes, in the 80’s and 90’s they rallied hard against music, and in the 90’s and early 2000’s against video games. Something positive did come out of it though. Music albums and video games didn’t have maturity ratings before all of that campaigning from the Christian Coalition. As a parent it’s nice to have a rating flag, so you know to check the content and see if you think it’s appropriate for your children.
My brother in Christ, I don’t know what planet you live on, but here on Earth, that was 30 years ago no matter where you live. And to my knowledge, none of the games and/or bands actually got cancelled because of it except on an individual basis (i.e. if you parents forbid you to have them at home). But in that case, we simply went to a friend’s house to play or listen to them there, so I’m not sure that this is really something worth getting all worked up over.
1990 was 34 years ago, but 1999 was only 25 years ago. When you get older, 25 years doesn’t seem like that long ago. I’m not sure if you’re implying that I’m getting worked up in your last sentence, but I’m not. I simply stated an observation. As far as the Christian Coalition, yes, they got really worked up.
Tons of albums were banned. 2 Live Crew had almost every one of their albums banned at one point or another. License to Ill by the Beasty Boys was banned. Everything from Too Short was banned. Tons of music was banned either from the radio, the record stores, or both. People went to jail over it. It was a big deal. Thankfully a lot of those bands sued and appealed, and moved the meter for artistic expression considerably, from then forwards.
You know you’re old when young people confidently explain to you things you witnessed first hand. Like Dee Snyder testifying in a Senate hearing.
So tone deaf.
how so?
A perfect meme!
Index librorum prohibitorum
“Everyone I disagree with are the same people”
