Brute force protection

@memes

  • @Pacmanlives@lemmy.world
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    01 year ago

    I remember in college editing OpenSSH source code to instead of return wrong password to a root shell prompt just to stop brute force attacks

      • @Pacmanlives@lemmy.world
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        01 year ago

        Oh all of my configs are deny root ssh login or without-password. I noticed a significant decrease in scans when returning a root prompt when I did that. This was also in the mid 2000s so who knows how things would be in this day in age for a reduction in scans

        • andersOP
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          01 year ago

          @Pacmanlives
          So it was a fake root prompt which tricked the bots into believing that they logged in successfully but in reality the prompt could do nothing on the system?

  • @gibmiser@lemmy.world
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    01 year ago

    As a non programmer, is the joke that humans will retype their password assuming that they made a typo?

    If so, sick indeed.

    • NutWrench
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      01 year ago

      I would assume that I was being phished and the attacker wanted me to re-type the password to verify that it’s correct.

    • @Infynis@midwest.social
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      01 year ago

      The guy coding made it so, on your first attempt, even if you answer correctly, it will tell you your login failed due to incorrect username or password, to joke about how it feels like you always get it wrong on the first try

      • @soloner@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        The logic is bugging me, though. It should be if isFirstAttempt || !isPasswordCorrect

        I understand the meme is trying to convey in spite of being correct to still return an error, but then it doesn’t account for when the password is actually incorrect.

        • @QuaternionsRock@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          That defeats the brute-force attack protection…

          The idea is that brute-force attackers will only check each password once, while real users will likely assume they mistyped and retype the same password.

          The code isn’t complete, and has nothing to do with actually incorrect passwords.

        • @reflectedodds@lemmy.world
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          01 year ago

          Like the other person said, it’s not meant to always fail the first time you enter any password.

          It is meant to fail the first time you enter the correct password.

  • @normalexit@lemmy.world
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    01 year ago

    This is a really interesting idea, but a password manager would throw a wrench in it.

    I’d assume my password was invalidated or stored incorrectly, so I’d reset, then I’d try to log in, wtf… this website blows.

  • @Matriks404@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Well, I sometimes input the same password 15-times in a row, and it works only on the last try. ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

  • @finkrat@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Won’t protect against an offline attack (just will confuse the hell out of the hacker) but might confound an online attack? Until someone gets wise and runs the tool a second time. Loving the chaotic neutral vibes here.

    • @zalgotext@sh.itjust.works
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      01 year ago

      It doesn’t really even protect against online attacks though. Like, if you’re going through a list of known accounts, by definition it won’t be any of those accounts’ first time logging in, right?

      And if you’re not going through a list of known accounts, good luck getting anywhere with your attack any time this millennia

      • Rickety Thudds
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        01 year ago

        Rainbow tables and presumably newer stuff I haven’t heard of make this sort of thing weaker than it used to be

        • @Whelks_chance@lemmy.world
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          01 year ago

          How does a rainbow table help here? They’re more for decoding unsalted encrypted database tables, rather than for actually trying to login.

        • @Clent@lemmy.world
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          01 year ago

          The rainbow table would have to include every four word combination. At around half a million words in the English dictionary, that’s not a small number.

          As another XKCD comic illustrates, it’s cheaper to use a wrench.

        • @OpenStars@startrek.website
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          01 year ago

          Yeah I thought about adding a note that it’s pretty outdated - and dictionary based scans were always possible even if less common in the old days - like those infamous passwords “God”, “Love”, “secret”, or like “admin”.

          The artist is pretty smart most of the time though so I presume they were aware of that possibility and meant that on a more basic level there are multiple ways to make passwords easier for a user to remember, not necessarily just this one rather simplistic take but as part of a whole approach. Then again, they didn’t say that, and instead said this, thus the controversy.

          Personally I gave up entirely and now I don’t even know what any of my own passwords are, though my password manager does:-). I guess… if you cannot beat them, join them!?:-P

          • @KoboldCoterie@pawb.social
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            1 year ago

            My current favorite “memorizable” method (obviously a random hash from a PW manager is still better) is to take a sentence of moderate complexity that includes the name of the service you’re signing up for in it, and use the first letter of each word as your password.

            For example, “When I wake up in the morning, the first thing I do is go to pawb.social.”

            Password would be “WIwuitm,tftIdigtps.”

            Easy to remember, immune to dictionary attacks, and you get a (mostly) unique password for each service, so stolen passwords can only access that one thing.

            Edit: To be clear, the value is that you can use the same sentence everywhere, switching out the name of the service to generate semi-unique passwords for each service. Obviously someone analyzing your passwords would be able to figure out the pattern, but that’s basically never what actually happens; it’s more likely someone gets 1 password and tries your email address + that PW in a variety of services, which this is strong against.

              • @KoboldCoterie@pawb.social
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                01 year ago

                It’s surprisingly easy to memorize. The sentence basically acts as a mnemonic device to remember the password, and it’s a lot easier to memorize a sentence that makes sense to you than to memorize something like “Tr0ub4d0r&8”.

            • @OpenStars@startrek.website
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              01 year ago

              I dunno, all I do is hit copy, then go to the website and hit paste, and that’s pretty easy as well:-P.

              I do need to step up my game for work though, b/c it keeps asking me a password multiple times a day so if I could rattle one off that would be better than having to open up my password manager and get it.

          • Natanael
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            01 year ago

            It’s it outdated at all, but you need more words.

            See diceware, 7 to 8 words fed typically all you need

        • aname
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          01 year ago

          Salting makes rainbow tables pretty much useless, and salting has been a standard practise for a few decades now.

          • @Mango@lemmy.world
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            01 year ago

            A few? I always had an easy time cracking my mom’s desktop password with them so I guess Microsoft wasn’t doing it with XP or Vista.

            • @kuneho@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Just to give you some opposite example, WordPress, Magento, Drupal, Django are using salts almost 2 decades now.

            • aname
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              01 year ago

              You do realize XP and Vista are few decades old?

        • @saigot@lemmy.ca
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          1 year ago

          Dictionary attacks have been around for a long time, but It’s still quite strong especially if you throw in a number.

          A fully random 8 character password has about 10^14 brute force combinations (assuming upper and lower case + the normal special characters). 4 words choosen at random from the top 3000 words (which is a very small vocabulary really) is 10^13 dictionary attack combinations, add a single number or account for variations in word style (I.e maybe don’t always use camel case) and you’ve matched the difficulty. If you use 5 words it’s 10^17 combinations.

          A password manager and a hard password is a better idea but there are cases where you can’t use a password manager (like the password to said manager).

          • Rickety Thudds
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            01 year ago

            I’m a basic little shit so, I basically use a correct horse + number password for my PW manager

              • A Wild Mimic appears!
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                1 year ago

                Used beginning letters of the words in song verse sprinkled with special characters for the rythm, feels good while typing

      • @iAvicenna@lemmy.world
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        01 year ago

        I suspect if the cracking code was constructed such that it had more weight on trying combinations of common words then this would be much easier to crack

        • @OpenStars@startrek.website
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          01 year ago

          I would naively think that as well - you would expand your alphabet of “symbols” to include both single letters and numbers and punctuation but also common words as well. It is still a lot of combinations to have to try though, even if less than each letter by itself.

      • Rustmilian
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        1 year ago

        Example of what My passwords are like :
        %*7EfOLkN@6AP28!8Dl#
        or potentially if allowed :
        W@c2wYnN9J3xGcyc47#ZkHJvt&Hm%q&Ad0b&Xwz#jnl4Th%6UBexD16a$YBFc@svnVrCBxXP0EpwLp6%Gk*Lom%@Qq#DjY1zsf0CzIrHHqPc8gt4edDVsg!omj*kIsIJ
        Good luck guessing my shit.

        • Amateur! Strong enough passwords are like:

          ÕÚüd¸2stb½õ~jëv×Â/oyÓh²î´t¶»Ö°ÍðoNVRïé2Wc4'H,CâÞó_ökÅ,Kð¡X9ÄÀ.þTØÓoæ73d*ëÞ¢?²i"`צeÉçß,ÎÅëüS.¹([)ãÒÑêf9÷¿¢=@Á×ÅQÎÂßu¸Å(iRZµîw&ãR
          
          • Rustmilian
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            1 year ago

            Try this on for size :

            `'�d+�t<�5mF�qrqcmv/�F��~��Yv�Om�/lK�RɏY%ɺP1�h�Ryl-�G/��m�ʰ�+^)��<>�itdkaz�q2HA*1�PK�D@{9�vN.<}�~ٕ�_�26IA/cHIn����1ĈҾܒl�I9$�vA��W¸ȶW"z�}θ�x�,>~�Ux�SJZ\�5ÀI��F}nLZT�;KӚq�&NQo32y7���0"^LÎs>��j!��V��k��2O<2W�ƽYcA#8�J�Of�pهZb�%1g�w�!k*h(ʶ73�@�CC�hUsԺe!_��dR�ٞpvG|.=4{v"&.��m=_�͚DZZף�aaZ��Cq�!sG1T3�=2lb,����^�镰n)Ld]��
            

            What’s my power level now?

            • @darelik@lemmy.world
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              01 year ago

              #ENHANCE

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              • Rustmilian
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                1 year ago

                Entropy so strong it makes quantum computers cry.
                Also :

              • Rustmilian
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                1 year ago

                Why would I have to verify by eye? That’s what a password manager is for. And writing your passwords on paper? ಠ⁠益⁠ಠ

          • MeatPilot
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            01 year ago

            That’s the stupidest combination I’ve ever heard in my life! That’s the kinda thing an idiot would have on his luggage!

    • bitwolf
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      01 year ago

      I never got that role. Shortly it is less secure to keep records of historical passwords than to let someone rotate between !!! And #### etc

    • Deebster
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      01 year ago

      I’ve had that before and I’m very confident the password was correct - my theory is that they’d changed how non-ASCII characters like £ were handled and their code only half recognised my password.